On 13 June 2013 01:17, j stollman <stollman.j@gmail.com> wrote:
All,

While I am not certain that I agree with Owen's particular spin, he does raise a good point that affects privacy -- a point that we failed to address in the FTC response:  ownership of and delegation of authority for the devices that comprise IoT.  

Indeed, I feel that responsibility and privilege are not adequately addressed anywhere in any of the discourse I have so far witnessed on identity. Have a look at my recent blog post for my comments about this.

However, I'm wondering what aspect of my spin in particular you might not agree with...
 

For example, if my electricity provide places a meter in my home, who owns it? My assumption is that the provider owns the device and I must agree to its installation in my home as a condition of obtaining electricity.

Sure, that would sound fair. Maybe the provider of the meter installs the device in your home and one of their employees connects the meter through an Identity which this individual projects in Clique Space. You, as the customer, engage another "device" in a Clique with the meter. This Clique might become your account. If the meter isn't engaged with your "device" in this Clique, it isolates you from the electricity supply.
 
 But then, who is responsible for programming it to reduce my power when demand is high?

You and your supplier are responsible. You might do this through Clique Space by setting Limiting Constraints. These Limiting Constraints would have to accord with those of the supplier because the Clique would not exist if they didn't; meaning your electricity supply would be cut off.
 
 If it is the electricity distributor, what say do I have in this decision?

You and your supplier agree to what the deal will be. So long as both of you agree to the way the meter will operate, the Clique exists, and so does the electricity supply.
 
If it is me, how does the "owner" delegate authority to me to program my usage?

In Clique Space, this can be done in a combination of ways. If we now just consider the abstract brush strokes of the underlying device collaboration, the ways depend upon the type of devices that are interacting (which device functionality the device's vendor have decided to expose to Clique Space), and how you and your meter-monitoring supplier employee friend have configured your Identities.

It is up to the two Participants in the Clique to decide who is going to be doing what. Maybe your friendly meter monitor has many of the Limiting Constraints supplied for his Participant by his employer through a hierarchy of Mode Profile Elements which this individual has activated in their identity. Maybe you have nothing so complicated, and decide to express Limiting Constraints in your Participant from properties that you have set against your Identity.
 
What if I want to provide my own meter (in the same way that I may provide my own router for my internet service or use one from my ISP), do I have that right?  After all, it is going in my home.

Maybe your electricity supplier will allow you to do that so long as you allow one of their employees to connect to your meter. Maybe even you can connect to the meter yourself, and Clique Space will relay the fact that you have connected to your meter, that you have engaged this meter in a Clique which shows to them that you are receiving an electricity supply from them. Again, they'll charge you appropriately for this supply while the Clique is in existence.
 
But the electricity distributor may be concerned that I will modify the reporting from the meter in order to mask my real use and pay a lower bill.

Indeed. Maybe it wouldn't be a good idea if your supplier allowed you to connect your own meter. Maybe the supplier would also have their own power switching gear on the pole from which your cables are attached, and because this switch is also connected to a Clique Space through another friendly power supply employee's identity, it isolates the power from the street because of the fact that no Clique exists between you and the meter on the other end of the cable.
 
From a privacy perspective, I consider ownership and delegation of authority to be the two big issues of IoT -- quite separate form the security concerns about access control.

I therefore think Clique Space may have a lot to offer IoT. It allows device compatibility and delegation of authority to be independently managed. This has as many philosophical challenges as there are technical ones: philosophical argument about the place of the individual is often a question of the positioning a component of the concept within the appropriate technical framework. It has thus far been my experience on my Clique Space journey that I have had to walk a logical tightrope that pays respect to the concept I am trying to implement, without falling into a trap of infinite regress.

I ask you all: who wouldn't want to suck on these deliciously juicy technophilosophical fruit when one seems to have a tree that bares them? I'd like to share.


Thank you.

Jeff


On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 8:22 AM, Owen Thomas <owen.paul.thomas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Joni (and the Kantara commnity).

Ummm... I'm not from the US (I'm Australian), and my thoughts on "the internet of things" have thus far not curried much resonance with people in general. Also, my concepts have still to yield anything demonstrable. Hence, I'm reluctant to contribute directly to conferences and other requests for input. But I will write this message.

I'd like to perhaps suggest that the term "things" be replaced with "individuals". I believe an internet of individuals is the ultimate destination for the internet as it evolves to be a medium through which individual presence is not only projected, but is also manifest. In an internet of individuals, every component (every "thing" or "device") is used by, and indeed, is used to manifest individual presence. In this vision, every router, switch, node and any other well defined contraption of any type that can exchange state (a device) with any other device will be directed by and accountable to the intentions of individual wills that compose them.

This vision requires a system that projects individual presence in such devices. I believe that my Clique Space concept is such a system. As far as I am aware, Clique Space is the only concept that has any chance of turning this internet of things into its ultimate expression as an internet of individuals,

Development continues, and I hope one day soon(ish) to be able to demonstrate that the Clique Space basic infrastructure (Agent Devices which collaborate to exchange information about other devices operating through other media) works. I would love some help in getting my proof-of-concept done quicker, so I post this letter here as an attempt to garner interest.

I'd welcome anyone's comment.

  Owen.



On 12 June 2013 18:24, Joni Brennan <joni@ieee-isto.org> wrote:

Dear Kantara Community,

Recently Kantara Initiative Trustees, Members and Participants provided their international and industry expertise to develop a brief response to a call for input by the US Federal Trade Commission (FTC) [1] regarding privacy and security implications of the Internet of Things (IoT). 

Pervasive implementation the IoT, and access control of associated data, will have significant implications with regard to Identity Management use cases and beyond. Kantara Initiative intends to address these implications through its network of experts and programs. 

The full response can be read on our Kantara blog [2].  We thank our stakeholders for their excellent input and we're looking forward to a workshop focusing on IoT that is being planned by FTC for the fall 2013. 

Please feel free to share the response with interested parties. We are very interested to hear feedback that can be shared on this list or via our contact form [3]. 

Joni Brennan
Executive Director
Kantara Initiative
 
[2] http://kantarainitiative.org/privacy-and-security-iot/

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Truth never triumphs — its opponents just die out.
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--
Employment-from-home. Make mine part-time. Yes you can.
Software developers certainly can be salaried and superannuated part-time from home. Make it so for this one.
Clique Space(TM): A seat for the soul.
www.owenpaulthomas.blogspot.com