But Robin, in a democracy the state's actions are supposedly a reflection of the citizens' desires. Alternatively, a majority of the citizens can enact (or repeal) statutory powers. Even in a dictatorship or thugocracy (vide Tunisia, East Germany, etc.), a larege enough group of the citizenry can force government change. -dave On 1/15/2011 10:07 AM, Robin Wilton wrote:
With respect, Tony, I think "vilification" is over-stating Charles' position...
The negative reaction to perceived over-collection of data about citizens, however benevolent the state's apparent aim, often arises out of the imbalance Charles refers to: the state has the ability to grant itself statutory powers reinforced by law enforcement. The citizen does not enjoy that right, or any equivalent power.
I'm not convinced by your example of buying weaponry; first, it's an argument from the particular (selling arms with no statutory ID checks is a bad idea) to the general (statutory ID checks are a bad idea)... I have seen you argue enough to know you can do better than that ;^)
Second, your example of firearms is not useful because it doesn't translate well across borders (even US state borders...). What constitutes perfectly acceptable firearms policy in one jurisdiction is totally unconscionable in another.
Yrs., Robin
On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 12:13 -0500, "Tony Rutkowski" <trutkowski@netmagic.com> wrote:
However, John Poindexter, the NSA, the CIA, the Patriot Act, RealID, etc. (to name a few) have "poisoned the well" of trust with previous attempts to build centralized digital information systems to allow the government to know more about citizens than citizens know about the government. The dialogue seems to have answered the question posed - the propensity to vilify
On 1/12/2011 11:29 AM, Charles Andres wrote: public officials and institutions with different views on this subject as apostates has not changed. Perhaps no surprise.
Would you oppose identity checks or tracking of those who purchase extended clips for Glocks or does this also abridge perceived rights?
--tony _______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@kantarainitiative.org http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Robin Wilton
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