You highlight the different attitudes to Personal Information Management and Privacy between Europe and the US. Of course government have to have and hold information about citizens in order to govern but they also have a duty to protect and keep up-to-date such records. The UK government have failed to do this with horrendous and repeated instances of multiple, unsynchronised data silos with life changing errors, 'lost and stolen' databases and, worse, sharing and selling personal information to private organisations. A key role for government departments would be in Verification of individuals and Certification of data and assertions. Graham Sadd Chairman & CEO Trusted Relationship Management T: +44 (0) 1628 510777 M: +44 (0) 7958 056171 E: graham.sadd@paoga.com W: www.paoga.com B: blog.grahamsadd.com <http://blog.grahamsadd.com/> From: Charles Andres [mailto:andres.charles@gmail.com] Sent: 12 January 2011 16:29 To: Graham Sadd Cc: Frank Wray; trutkowski@netmagic.com; Drummond Reed; Mary Ruddy; Walsh, Alan J; Rob Marano; community@lists.idcommons.net; community@kantarainitiative.org Subject: Re: [community] an interesting question At the risk of oversimplifying, the overarching goal is to make it possible for legally-binding transactions to take place between parties via a user-driven digital claims verification system. Getting governments (whose primary purpose is to regulate and determine what is legal) to agree and perhaps participate in such a system would be a tremendous leap forward -- similar to adopting/enforcing common traffic rules that enabled individuals (and companies) to own and operate motor vehicles. Within the U.S., NSTIC is the best proposal so far. However, John Poindexter, the NSA, the CIA, the Patriot Act, RealID, etc. (to name a few) have "poisoned the well" of trust with previous attempts to build centralized digital information systems to allow the government to know more about citizens than citizens know about the government. The obstacles are huge. We not only have to convince legislators to act without giving in to 'special interests', but also convince a rightfully skeptical citizenry that NSTIC actually might make things better. We can't afford to screw this up, and we can't afford to wait and let nature take its course. IMHO, despotism is likely from either of these alternatives. "Perhaps (these) sentiments are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing WRONG, gives it a superficial appearance of being RIGHT...But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason." - Common Sense, Thomas Paine. On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Graham Sadd <graham.sadd@paoga.com> wrote: I have been following this thread from the other side of the pond. An interesting and ongoing debate but I maintain that 'I' am the ONLY entity who owns my identity and it changes and morphs as I grow and continually add experiences. Now, I can keep this completely private as long as my ambition is to sit on a mountain top and hummm! If I want to engage with a community or society of any kind then I need to share or exchange it. All I want is to be able to chose what bits, at what time, for what reason and with whom I share it - the same things that I do with my cash. And, like my money, I want a record of these events. What I don't want is any organisation, public or private, passing it on without my knowledge or consent. If government-centric then it will be designed and used for their benefit. If individual -centric the it can be 'under my control, with my consent, for my benefit'. See http://blog.grahamsadd.com/ Regards Graham Graham Sadd Chairman & CEO Trusted Relationship Management T: +44 (0) 1628 510777 M: +44 (0) 7958 056171 E: graham.sadd@paoga.com W: www.paoga.com B: blog.grahamsadd.com <http://blog.grahamsadd.com/> From: community-request@lists.idcommons.net [mailto: community-request@lists.idcommons.net] On Behalf Of Frank Wray Sent: 12 January 2011 14:18 To: trutkowski@netmagic.com; Drummond Reed Cc: Mary Ruddy; Walsh, Alan J; Rob Marano; community@lists.idcommons.net; community@kantarainitiative.org Subject: Re: [community] an interesting question I am not sure if I agree completely... Americans have a history of not trusting government, and as a matter of fact, America was born on the notion of the lack of trust in government. The media uses that to sell their product. But, Identity should not be treated as a government issue, nation issue, but a user-centric issue in an Internet connected world (global). Each user is the owner of their identity and each user should have the ability to provide the information that they want to provide when they engage in an Internet transaction (sharing information included) and maintain the anonymity when desired. NSTIC was misrepresented by the mainstream media, but the root of the issue is the name. We cannot have a Nation-centric identity eco-system in a global Internet. One of the beauties of the Internet is the lack of borders. A global initiative where governments, the private sector and user communities as interested parties build the trust framework and use some or one of the current trust framework initiatives out there. And I am not suggesting that NSTIC is necessarily nation-centric, but the name leads to that believe. I also believe that the misrepresentation of the media is actually a good thing. This will not necessarily "kill" the initiative it will improve it and maybe even "globalize it" as I have suggested. So, let's keep the conversation going... :) ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Rutkowski Sent: 01/12/11 08:43 AM To: Drummond Reed Subject: [community] an interesting question The treatment of personal IdM in the U.S. is shaped in substantial measure by a messaging by the media and lobbying community that conveys a hostility to government - some of it extreme - where the government is always painted in negative terms. It is a perspective almost unknown elsewhere in the world. That perspective is reflected in some of the NSTIC dialogue last week. Has the calculus changed by recent events? --amr ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: community@lists.idcommons.net To be removed from the list, send any message to: community-unsubscribe@lists.idcommons.net For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.idcommons.net/lists/info/community Notice/Disclaimer Internet communications are not secure and the company (PAOGA Limited) does not accept legal liability for the integrity of the contents of this message. This email is confidential and the contents may not be disclosed or used by anyone other than the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient and receive this email, please immediately contact the sender at the above location. Whilst PAOGA Limited attempts to sweep email and attachments for viri and other malware. 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