Re: [DG-BSC] WEF Report

Thanks Luk. I would think that real P2P would not have central governance (not even central "mining"). It would be polycentric. Anyone or any group could fork their own and cooperate or interoperate as they found convenient. Of course there are very strong reasons to interoperate, and standards are important (e.g., our discussion on a Kantara thread). Regarding decentralized law (document templates) we think that participants will want local, national, industry and global standards processes, under distinct, "local", even competing managements. Hence a "Center for Decentralized Law." On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Luk Vervenne wrote:

OK James. But there is a difference between who’s is running the federated IdM, and who is governing it. A data center, Telco’s or even a bank might actually do it, but an independent "separation of concern” governance should manage it.

If we* really* want to make the individual a genuine stakeholder… it starts there and then. By *ethically industrialising personal data management* (which is more than IdM, we need to end this *fight for personal data,* by setting up a *new digital utility* as the very basis from which individuals can become genuine stakeholders. To name one ...Local Gov. should take up its (partial) responsibility.

Luk

On 18 Aug 2016, at 14:46, James Hazard wrote:

This is an interesting discussion.

I have no dog in this fight, and am not trying to take sides. I notice, however, that telcos are i) more digital, ii) in more direct contact with the customer via mobile phones iii) more agile iv) bigger (in subscriber bases).

In addition to the advantages of banks mentioned in the report, banks are more numerous and many are more local than telcos. They might pose less of monopoly threat and perhaps less monoculture threat.

In this view, telcos are natural conduits for a P2P solution and banks are natural hosts. This of course does not make banks the exclusive hosts, not even for a single individual. In a P2P solution, individuals can host-their-own or host with an alternative supplier, and there is a very low barrier to switching.

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 8:14 AM, Luk Vervenne

...

wrote:

...

Adding to Martin’s, here’s another one :

Even in an digital world, most of the economic value of an individual is spend ...local. So federated IdM - and in fact the Digital Utility supporting Personal Data Ecosystems - need to be locally based in a Europe of Regions.

Luk

On 18 Aug 2016, at 14:04, Martin Kuppinger wrote:

Hi,

yes, unfortunately they neither act that way nor are they as trusted for that role as most believe. We did research even a couple of years ago on that and it has been verified repeatedly that Telcos including mobile operators are in a better position. They are trusted. And they have far bigger ecosystems than most banks have. Furthermore, I believe that many people still want to keep identity and their own financials somewhat separate. Otherwise, PayPal might be the best home for identity management: Global, large scale,… At least we finally might see an evolution towards an ecosystem of trusted identity providers with sufficient interoperability, particularly for the interactions and transactions that really need trust. Most governments failed in providing such infrastructure. Others, including many startups, tried to fill that gap – and commonly failed. Now, others (and I bet more on telcos than the finance industry), based on new technical options, might succeed.

Regards, Martin

*Von:* dg-bsc-bounces@kantarainitiative.org [mailto:dg-bsc- bounces@kantarainitiative.org ] *Im Auftrag von *James Hazard *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. August 2016 13:58 *An:* John Wunderlich *Cc:* dg-bsc@kantarainitiative.org *Betreff:* Re: [DG-BSC] WEF Report

This report of the World Economic Forum, done by Deloitte, has a consistent thesis - that banks (financial institutions) are the natural home for identity management. It makes the point in great depth.

http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_A_Blueprint_for_Digital_Identity.pdf

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 5:02 PM, James Hazard wrote:

A couple of thoughts:

These "blockchain" analyses tend to minimize the role of related technologies, such as identity management and access control, and of knock-on effects resulting from, for instance, harmonization of the record format, of the functions and of the legal text. If we recontextualize "blockchain," it is busting down the proprietary door to banking and finance software, and all the other technologies can follow. "Financial technology" becomes simply "technology," technology that is open source.

Borrowing from the Barclays' smart templates vocabulary and Thomas's use case, the layers seem to be:

1. Records, which can be: 1.1. parameters (transaction particulars and paradigms) 1.2. prose (framing - legal, descriptive and other human-readable text) 1.3. code (functions - "smart contracts" - text that computers like to read) 2. synchronization of records 3. execution of code 4. management of collections of records (notably access control) 5. validation of the veracity of collections of records.

"Blockchains," in the technical sense provide advantages primarily in layer 5, but "blockchains" in the movement sense highlight the advantages of using common approaches to the other layers. Blockchains in the technical sense are suboptimal (or even unusable) in some of the other layers, notably in management of records. It is hard to see how blockchains can be reconciled with, for instance, the privacy requirements of the GDPR.

http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/BSC/Privacy- Preserving+Data+Sharing

Banking is a particularly important use case, that we might wish to consider. The EU Payment Services Directive mandates banking APIs. Banks are, I am told, extremely concerned about data security and fraud, as well as worried about the competitive effects.

To demonstrate a vision of "open sourced" financial services in a format that is compatible with blockchains but not dependent on them, I improved on a "bank chain" demo I did in France. This demo is very dense - (not the first time that that can be said of my work) - but it shows a flow of drafting, signature and validation of a payment instrument (check), and has stubs for specifying consequences that need to be implemented in code (a kind of loose-text SCDL - smart contract definition language).

This is neither legal nor coding advice, and is certainly wrong in all particulars, but it may help convey the general idea - that open source (blockchain in context) can permit the financial sector and its customers (most of us) to be treated as a decentralized file system, nodes in a "graph."

http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=bqc/fr /bnpp/a5we/Account/Check/00001/06-Accept.md

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 4:14 PM, John Wunderlich wrote:

If I were to pick at that nit, I would suggest "mistrust somewhere in the chain of transactions" Thanks, John 4giv spellin errurz from mobile devize

_____________________________ From: j stollman Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [DG-BSC] WEF Report To: John Wunderlich Cc: Thomas Hardjono ,

John,

This list provides some valuable insight.

The only thing I would change is the Item 3: Minimal Trust. My correction is nitpicky, but I would change "mistrust *between* entities: to "mistrust *among* entities." Often the two parties transacting trust each other. The trust breakdown is further up or down the transaction chain. "Among" captures this more accurately than "between."

Jeff

--------------------------------- Jeff Stollman stollman.j@gmail.com

+1 202.683.8699

Truth never triumphs — its opponents just die out. Science advances one funeral at a time. Max Planck

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 6:27 AM, John Wunderlich wrote:

Here's the page that leapt out at me - characteristics of high potential use cases John Wunderlich,

Sent frum a mobile device, Pleez 4give speling erurz

"...a world of near-total surveillance and endless record-keeping is likely to be one with less liberty, less experimentation, and certainly far less joy..." A. Michael Froomkin

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 5:13 AM -0400, "Thomas Hardjono" < hardjono@mit.edu> wrote:

This might help us in some of our use cases:http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_The_future_of_financial_infrastructure.pdf/... mailing listDG-BSC@kantarainitiative.orghttp://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-bsc

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