And here I was going to propose "The Immutable and Universal True
Commandments of Identity Relationship Management" :-)
Totally agree with this thread. I like the idea of "principles" as a way of
talking about this work. For those of you who have seen my talks on the
subject have observed, I've really struggled with language that feels right.
Talk to everyone tomorrow,
i
On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 6:12 AM, Robin Wilton <wilton(a)isoc.org> wrote:
> As someone who attacked Kim’s Laws for the hubris of the label, I share
> the concern.
>
> An alternative might be “Principles”…
>
> R
>
> Robin Wilton
> Technical Outreach Director - Identity and Privacy
> Internet Society
>
> email: wilton(a)isoc.org
> Phone: +44 705 005 2931
> Twitter: @futureidentity
>
> On 8 Mar 2015, at 16:21, Salvatore D'Agostino <sal(a)idmachines.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, don’t disagree but I don’t think that is where the title is coming
> from. I think the whole point was to play off of Kim’s “Laws” and say
> there are new ones in play. There is a certain ring to laws and benefits
> in terms of capturing audience. It probably gets more attention than
> Design Requirements for Relationship Management. This is an initial work
> and of even more interest to me is the mutability of the requirements as a
> topic in play as opposed to the title of the document as a whole. One of
> the things we may find is that the permutations of relationships mean that
> even laws/requirements may need a bit of if, then. Among our next steps is
> taking the document apart, ideally law by law but overall is fine too as we
> look to reconstitute the “laws”.
>
> We can put this in play on Tuesday, will get an agenda out and look
> forward to getting together then. Don’t forget to follow @irmwg and join
> the linkedin group and contribute to the conversation there as well.
>
> Good balance of the weekend to all,
>
> Sal
>
> *From:* Susan Morrow [mailto:susan.morrow@avocosecure.com
> <susan.morrow(a)avocosecure.com>]
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 08, 2015 1:56 AM
> *To:* j stollman
> *Cc:* Salvatore D'Agostino; dg-idot(a)kantarainitiative.org
> *Subject:* Re: [DG-IDoT] Laws of Relationships
>
> I agree with you Jeff and brought up the same issue about being immutable.
> It also precludes the acceptance of fuzziness in relationships too.
> I suppose the use of the word 'law' in technology has a different meaning
> than the use of it in sciences like physics and chemistry.
>
> Susan
>
>
> On 8 Mar 2015, at 05:35, j stollman <stollman.j(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ever since Kim Cameron's Laws of Identity, the industry seems to gravitate
> towards the use of the term "Laws". But I think what this document really
> is is a specification of design requirements for a new system(s) capable of
> meeting the objectives stated in the introduction.
>
> I have no particular agita over these design requirements. But I feel
> that framing them properly as design requirements, rather than laws, offers
> flexibility to design alternative systems that may select only a subset or
> explicitly violate one or more laws. At this early stage I prefer this
> flexibility to the immutable sound of "Laws."
>
> Jeff
>
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Salvatore D'Agostino <sal(a)idmachines.com>
> wrote:
> Here is the link I mentioned, we also have a twitter handle for the group
> of @irmwg and use the same for a hashtag #irmwg.
>
>
> https://kantarainitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Kantara-Initiative…
>
> Other Kantara reports are here:
> https://kantarainitiative.org/reports-recommendations/
>
> Enjoy the weekend.
>
> Sal
>
> Salvatore D'Agostino
> IDmachines LLC
> 1264 Beacon Street, #5
> Brookline, MA 02446
> USA
> http://www.idmachines.com
> http://idmachines.blogspot.com
> @idmachines
> +1 617.201.4809 ph
> +1 617.812.6495 fax
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> DG-IDoT mailing list
> DG-IDoT(a)kantarainitiative.org
> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot
>
>
>
> --
> Jeff Stollman
> stollman.j(a)gmail.com
> 1 202.683.8699
>
> Truth never triumphs — its opponents just die out.
> Science advances one funeral at a time.
> Max Planck
>
> _______________________________________________
> DG-IDoT mailing list
> DG-IDoT(a)kantarainitiative.org
> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot
>
> _______________________________________________
> WG-IRM mailing list
> WG-IRM(a)kantarainitiative.org
> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/wg-irm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WG-IRM mailing list
> WG-IRM(a)kantarainitiative.org
> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/wg-irm
>
>
--
Ian Glazer
Senior Director, Identity
+1 202 255 3166
@iglazer <https://twitter.com/iglazer>
Perfect word
From: Robin Wilton [mailto:wilton@isoc.org]
Sent: 09 March 2015 10:12
To: Salvatore D'Agostino
Cc: Susan Morrow; j stollman; wg-irm(a)kantarainitiative.org;
dg-idot(a)kantarainitiative.org
Subject: Re: [WG-IRM] [DG-IDoT] Laws of Relationships
As someone who attacked Kim's Laws for the hubris of the label, I share the
concern.
An alternative might be "Principles".
R
Robin Wilton
Technical Outreach Director - Identity and Privacy
Internet Society
email: wilton(a)isoc.org
Phone: +44 705 005 2931
Twitter: @futureidentity
On 8 Mar 2015, at 16:21, Salvatore D'Agostino <sal(a)idmachines.com> wrote:
Yes, don't disagree but I don't think that is where the title is coming
from. I think the whole point was to play off of Kim's "Laws" and say there
are new ones in play. There is a certain ring to laws and benefits in terms
of capturing audience. It probably gets more attention than Design
Requirements for Relationship Management. This is an initial work and of
even more interest to me is the mutability of the requirements as a topic in
play as opposed to the title of the document as a whole. One of the things
we may find is that the permutations of relationships mean that even
laws/requirements may need a bit of if, then. Among our next steps is
taking the document apart, ideally law by law but overall is fine too as we
look to reconstitute the "laws".
We can put this in play on Tuesday, will get an agenda out and look forward
to getting together then. Don't forget to follow @irmwg and join the
linkedin group and contribute to the conversation there as well.
Good balance of the weekend to all,
Sal
From: Susan Morrow [ <mailto:susan.morrow@avocosecure.com>
mailto:susan.morrow@avocosecure.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2015 1:56 AM
To: j stollman
Cc: Salvatore D'Agostino; <mailto:dg-idot@kantarainitiative.org>
dg-idot(a)kantarainitiative.org
Subject: Re: [DG-IDoT] Laws of Relationships
I agree with you Jeff and brought up the same issue about being immutable.
It also precludes the acceptance of fuzziness in relationships too.
I suppose the use of the word 'law' in technology has a different meaning
than the use of it in sciences like physics and chemistry.
Susan
On 8 Mar 2015, at 05:35, j stollman < <mailto:stollman.j@gmail.com>
stollman.j(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Ever since Kim Cameron's Laws of Identity, the industry seems to gravitate
towards the use of the term "Laws". But I think what this document really
is is a specification of design requirements for a new system(s) capable of
meeting the objectives stated in the introduction.
I have no particular agita over these design requirements. But I feel that
framing them properly as design requirements, rather than laws, offers
flexibility to design alternative systems that may select only a subset or
explicitly violate one or more laws. At this early stage I prefer this
flexibility to the immutable sound of "Laws."
Jeff
On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Salvatore D'Agostino <
<mailto:sal@idmachines.com> sal(a)idmachines.com> wrote:
Here is the link I mentioned, we also have a twitter handle for the group of
@irmwg and use the same for a hashtag #irmwg.
<https://kantarainitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Kantara-Initiative
-IRM-Laws-of-Relationship-Final-Report-v1.0.pdf>
https://kantarainitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Kantara-Initiative-
IRM-Laws-of-Relationship-Final-Report-v1.0.pdf
Other Kantara reports are here:
<https://kantarainitiative.org/reports-recommendations/>
https://kantarainitiative.org/reports-recommendations/
Enjoy the weekend.
Sal
Salvatore D'Agostino
IDmachines LLC
1264 Beacon Street, #5
Brookline, MA 02446
USA
<http://www.idmachines.com/> http://www.idmachines.com
<http://idmachines.blogspot.com/> http://idmachines.blogspot.com
@idmachines
<tel:%2B1%20617.201.4809> +1 617.201.4809 ph
<tel:%2B1%20617.812.6495> +1 617.812.6495 fax
_______________________________________________
DG-IDoT mailing list
<mailto:DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org> DG-IDoT(a)kantarainitiative.org
<http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot>
http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot
--
Jeff Stollman
<mailto:stollman.j@gmail.com> stollman.j(a)gmail.com
1 202.683.8699
Truth never triumphs - its opponents just die out.
Science advances one funeral at a time.
Max Planck
_______________________________________________
DG-IDoT mailing list
<mailto:DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org> DG-IDoT(a)kantarainitiative.org
<http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot>
http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot
_______________________________________________
WG-IRM mailing list
<mailto:WG-IRM@kantarainitiative.org> WG-IRM(a)kantarainitiative.org
<http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/wg-irm>
http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/wg-irm
Noted.
Thanks Robin.
From: Robin Wilton [mailto:wilton@isoc.org]
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 6:12 AM
To: Salvatore D'Agostino
Cc: Susan Morrow; j stollman; wg-irm(a)kantarainitiative.org;
dg-idot(a)kantarainitiative.org
Subject: Re: [WG-IRM] [DG-IDoT] Laws of Relationships
As someone who attacked Kim's Laws for the hubris of the label, I share the
concern.
An alternative might be "Principles".
R
Robin Wilton
Technical Outreach Director - Identity and Privacy
Internet Society
email: wilton(a)isoc.org
Phone: +44 705 005 2931
Twitter: @futureidentity
On 8 Mar 2015, at 16:21, Salvatore D'Agostino <sal(a)idmachines.com> wrote:
Yes, don't disagree but I don't think that is where the title is coming
from. I think the whole point was to play off of Kim's "Laws" and say there
are new ones in play. There is a certain ring to laws and benefits in terms
of capturing audience. It probably gets more attention than Design
Requirements for Relationship Management. This is an initial work and of
even more interest to me is the mutability of the requirements as a topic in
play as opposed to the title of the document as a whole. One of the things
we may find is that the permutations of relationships mean that even
laws/requirements may need a bit of if, then. Among our next steps is
taking the document apart, ideally law by law but overall is fine too as we
look to reconstitute the "laws".
We can put this in play on Tuesday, will get an agenda out and look forward
to getting together then. Don't forget to follow @irmwg and join the
linkedin group and contribute to the conversation there as well.
Good balance of the weekend to all,
Sal
From: Susan Morrow [ <mailto:susan.morrow@avocosecure.com>
mailto:susan.morrow@avocosecure.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2015 1:56 AM
To: j stollman
Cc: Salvatore D'Agostino; <mailto:dg-idot@kantarainitiative.org>
dg-idot(a)kantarainitiative.org
Subject: Re: [DG-IDoT] Laws of Relationships
I agree with you Jeff and brought up the same issue about being immutable.
It also precludes the acceptance of fuzziness in relationships too.
I suppose the use of the word 'law' in technology has a different meaning
than the use of it in sciences like physics and chemistry.
Susan
On 8 Mar 2015, at 05:35, j stollman < <mailto:stollman.j@gmail.com>
stollman.j(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Ever since Kim Cameron's Laws of Identity, the industry seems to gravitate
towards the use of the term "Laws". But I think what this document really
is is a specification of design requirements for a new system(s) capable of
meeting the objectives stated in the introduction.
I have no particular agita over these design requirements. But I feel that
framing them properly as design requirements, rather than laws, offers
flexibility to design alternative systems that may select only a subset or
explicitly violate one or more laws. At this early stage I prefer this
flexibility to the immutable sound of "Laws."
Jeff
On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Salvatore D'Agostino <
<mailto:sal@idmachines.com> sal(a)idmachines.com> wrote:
Here is the link I mentioned, we also have a twitter handle for the group of
@irmwg and use the same for a hashtag #irmwg.
<https://kantarainitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Kantara-Initiative
-IRM-Laws-of-Relationship-Final-Report-v1.0.pdf>
https://kantarainitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Kantara-Initiative-
IRM-Laws-of-Relationship-Final-Report-v1.0.pdf
Other Kantara reports are here:
<https://kantarainitiative.org/reports-recommendations/>
https://kantarainitiative.org/reports-recommendations/
Enjoy the weekend.
Sal
Salvatore D'Agostino
IDmachines LLC
1264 Beacon Street, #5
Brookline, MA 02446
USA
<http://www.idmachines.com/> http://www.idmachines.com
<http://idmachines.blogspot.com/> http://idmachines.blogspot.com
@idmachines
<tel:%2B1%20617.201.4809> +1 617.201.4809 ph
<tel:%2B1%20617.812.6495> +1 617.812.6495 fax
_______________________________________________
DG-IDoT mailing list
<mailto:DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org> DG-IDoT(a)kantarainitiative.org
<http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot>
http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot
--
Jeff Stollman
<mailto:stollman.j@gmail.com> stollman.j(a)gmail.com
1 202.683.8699
Truth never triumphs - its opponents just die out.
Science advances one funeral at a time.
Max Planck
_______________________________________________
DG-IDoT mailing list
<mailto:DG-IDoT@kantarainitiative.org> DG-IDoT(a)kantarainitiative.org
<http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot>
http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idot
_______________________________________________
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<mailto:WG-IRM@kantarainitiative.org> WG-IRM(a)kantarainitiative.org
<http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/wg-irm>
http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/wg-irm
Dear All,
I hope you are all doing well.
I'd like to remind you that our next IDoT-call is coming up today.
I'm looking forward to talking to you!
Best regards,
Ingo
Date and Time
* Friday, March 6th, at 7am PT (time chart)<http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=IDoT+Conf+Call&iso…>
* Voice: Skype: +99051000000481 or US +1-805-309-2350 / Alternate Toll +1 (714) 551-9842 (international dial-in lines<http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/x/KYC_/>), room code 613-2898#
* (Turbobridge call options<https://www.turbobridge.com/join.html>)
Kind regards
Ingo Friese
Deutsche Telekom AG
T-Labs (Research & Innovation)
Dipl.-Ing. Ingo Friese
Winterfeldtstr. 21, 10781 Berlin
+4930835358148 (Phone)
+49391580216849 (Fax)
E-Mail: ingo.friese(a)telekom.de<mailto:ingo.friese@telekom.de>
www.telekom.com<http://www.telekom.com/>
Life is for sharing.
DEUTSCHE TELEKOM AG
Supervisory Board: Prof. Dr. Ulrich Lehner (Chairman)
Board of Management: René Obermann (Chairman),
Reinhard Clemens, Niek Jan van Damme,
Timotheus Höttges, Dr. Thomas Kremer, Claudia Nemat, Prof. Dr. Marion Schick
Commercial register: Amtsgericht Bonn HRB 6794
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