Hi all, I have a question taken from a real-life example: There is a manufacturer of a harvester. This harvester has many sensors to measure different things (e.g. humidity of wheat; quality of the ground etc.) The manufacturer sells this harvester to a farmer. Afterwards the farmer can buy a premium add-on device in order to get/see the values of the sensors. Furthermore the manufacturer aggregates these data and sells these also to other interested parties (statistics etc) My question is "who owns the data"? One point of view is: In fact the manufacturer sells the data of the farmer to the farmer. The other point of view is: The manufacture just enables an additional feature on the harvester. Thoughts ?
Multiple kinds of data. Some specific to the harvester and its owner (if they are the same particularly given the fact that a lot of equipment is leased) e.g. oil light or collision avoidance and some that is shared by the "thing" and some that is used by the thing. Other parties are likely involved than just mfg and farmer. How did the data get from the harvester, where is it stored, where is it analyzed along the lines of originator and collector of data. Entity output as attribute (already) registered to device logical address is finite and controlled so maybe the issues of "who owns" becomes who controls. .. quick thoughts From: dg-idot-bounces@kantarainitiative.org [mailto:dg-idot-bounces@kantarainitiative.org] On Behalf Of Ingo.Friese@telekom.de Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:42 AM To: dg-idot@kantarainitiative.org Subject: [DG-IDoT] Who owns the data of a sensor? Hi all, I have a question taken from a real-life example: There is a manufacturer of a harvester. This harvester has many sensors to measure different things (e.g. humidity of wheat; quality of the ground etc.) The manufacturer sells this harvester to a farmer. Afterwards the farmer can buy a premium add-on device in order to get/see the values of the sensors. Furthermore the manufacturer aggregates these data and sells these also to other interested parties (statistics etc) My question is "who owns the data"? One point of view is: In fact the manufacturer sells the data of the farmer to the farmer. The other point of view is: The manufacture just enables an additional feature on the harvester. Thoughts ?
From the farmer's perspective, he is the one who has driven the harvester around his farmer, enabling the harvester to record the data. He has put "sweat equity" into the value of the data. If there are enough harvesters and the price for the data form the manufacturer is high enough, a third
Ingo, I like the problem. Unfortunately, it is a legal issue that will have to be decided by a court system -- unless one or more governments decide to explicitly legislate the answer. The argument for the manufacturer owning the data is that it is likely a stipulation in the sales contract for the device. The farmer has (unwittingly?) likely yielded his right to the data by agreeing to the terms of the contract. Should the farmer refuse to sign the contract, he will likely have to buy another vendor's machine. UNLESS he can band together with enough other farmers to get the manufacturer's attention and have the contract terms changed. At that point, it becomes a negotiation. The manufacturer will claim that the farmer lacks the ability to receive and interpret the data, so that the manufacturer deserves the right to it. party might begin providing a low cost receiver that can interpret the data. The third-party device provider might also offer a subscription service to the farmers giving them a discount if they allow their data to be shared with other farmers' data to provide aggregated data. In inventive third-party device provider may also supply his own sensors to farmers who might then disable the ones that come on the machine in order to preclude the exploitation of the data by the manufacturer (unless this is prohibited under the sales contract). Thank you. Jeff On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Salvatore D'Agostino <sal@idmachines.com>wrote:
Multiple kinds of data. Some specific to the harvester and its owner (if they are the same particularly given the fact that a lot of equipment is leased) e.g. oil light or collision avoidance and some that is shared by the “thing” and some that is used by the thing.****
Other parties are likely involved than just mfg and farmer.****
How did the data get from the harvester, where is it stored, where is it analyzed along the lines of originator and collector of data.****
Entity output as attribute (already) registered to device logical address is finite and controlled so maybe the issues of “who owns” becomes who controls.****
.. quick thoughts****
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*From:* dg-idot-bounces@kantarainitiative.org [mailto: dg-idot-bounces@kantarainitiative.org] *On Behalf Of * Ingo.Friese@telekom.de *Sent:* Tuesday, October 01, 2013 5:42 AM *To:* dg-idot@kantarainitiative.org *Subject:* [DG-IDoT] Who owns the data of a sensor?****
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Hi all,****
I have a question taken from a real-life example:****
There is a manufacturer of a harvester. This harvester has many sensors to measure different things (e.g. humidity of wheat; quality of the ground etc.) ****
The manufacturer sells this harvester to a farmer.****
Afterwards the farmer can buy a premium add-on device in order to get/see the values of the sensors. Furthermore the manufacturer aggregates these data and sells these also to other interested parties (statistics etc)****
My question is “who owns the data”? ****
One point of view is: In fact the manufacturer sells the data of the farmer to the farmer.****
The other point of view is: The manufacture just enables an additional feature on the harvester.****
Thoughts ?****
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Hello all, With respect to the initial question from Ingo, I think that the key is, as Jeff write it, the contract between the two parties. It's probably more or less the same case with smartphone. The difference is that most users don't read the "contract" when purchasing the phone. And they validate without reading them the T&C of all apps they install on that phone. And there is a lot of data collected by various sensors in the phone that are transmitted to the phone's manufacturer or the app editor. Do the T&C make those data the solely property of the manufacturer or editor? And just a thought to note: I wonder if an object can have an identity ONLY if it can communicate with others. If yes, then, I suppose that the owner of the data MUST be involved in such a communication, otherwise he can't be the owner. That doesn't help to answer Ingo's question, but that may be considered as a simple premise. No? Le 01/10/2013 17:33, j stollman a écrit :
Ingo, [...]
The argument for the manufacturer owning the data is that it is likely a stipulation in the sales contract for the device. The farmer has (unwittingly?) likely yielded his right to the data by agreeing to the terms of the contract. [...]
Regards, -- Benoît Bailleux Orange Labs, P&S / Architecture — Security — Enablers Open Source referent Phone: +33 2 96 05 20 37
participants (4)
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BAILLEUX Benoit OLNC/OLPS -
Ingo.Friese＠telekom.de -
j stollman -
Salvatore D'Agostino