To me, the core of the article is captured in the following quote (IHV = Issuer-Holder-Verifier; CHR = Client-Holder-Relay): In practice, we need both lenses: * Use IHV when the credibility of the issuer is central (a government ID, a university diploma). * Use CHR when what matters is secure interaction between peers, with cryptography providing the trust (login, delegation, secure messaging). Thanks, Loffie Jordaan Business Solutions Architect Phone: 703.522.4200 aamva.org<https://www.aamva.org/> From: David Kelts <david@decipher.id> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 11:04 To: John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca>; PEMC Kantara <wg-pemc@kantarainitiative.org> Subject: [WG-PEMC] Re: Moving on from Issuer-Holder-Verifier? WARNING: This email originated from outside of AAMVA. Do not click on links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. I applaud the concept of rebalancing power structures and naming to to emphasize holder control… and to show people there are architectures in a multi-credential/issuer per wallet/holder world that *do* empower users and provide a lot of interactions for use cases. The Utah concept of “endorsing” an identity is another crack at the rebalancing. I’m not following the “relay” concept in Tim’s article, however. I see it as a Cloud Wallet or Wallet Provider (Kantara term) services or maybe a UK Orchestration Service Provider (designed to operate on behalf of a group of RP’s). I’ll have to sit with his concept a while or ask Tim. David Kelts (he/him) +1(617)487-9529 m david@decipher.id<mailto:david@decipher.id> Deciphering mobile identity for real-world application: decipher.id<http://decipher.id/> On Aug 23, 2025, at 6:27 PM, john@wunderlich.ca<mailto:john@wunderlich.ca> wrote: https://open.substack.com/pub/trbouma/p/from-issuerholderverifier-to-clientholderrelay?r=nu5h&utm_medium=ios Have a better than expected day, John Wunderlich “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.” ― Anatole France Calendly: https://calendly.com/privacycdn LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/privacycdn/ Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/privacycdn.bsky.social Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/@PrivacyCDN Twitter: https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. _______________________________________________ A Community Group mailing list of KantaraInitiative.org Wg-pemc mailing list -- wg-pemc@kantarainitiative.org<mailto:wg-pemc@kantarainitiative.org> To unsubscribe send an email to staff@kantarainitiative.org<mailto:staff@kantarainitiative.org> List archives -- https://mailman.kantarainitiative.org/hyperkitty/list/wg-pemc@kantarainitiat... ______ Group wiki -- https://kantara.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/Wg-pemc