I could ask Doc about it. A lot of the links are broken and resources are from 2010 and earlier. There is discussion of a self sovereign digital idea that comes up from time to time on the ProjectVRM Listserv. They’ve been more interested in personal LLM lately. I don’t see anything recently on digital ID.This is the DIY Digital ID post they linked to in 2003. I got it from the Wayback machine.
~This is interesting… Britt Blaster just sent this to me…. http://www.xpertweb.com/
-J
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P: 570-820-2060
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From: Tom Jones <thomasclinganjones@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "peace@acm.org" <peace@acm.org>
Date: Tuesday, August 6, 2024 at 5:06 PM
To: Noreen Whysel <nwhysel@gmail.com>
Cc: "peace@acm.org" <peace@acm.org>, Bev Corwin <bevcorwin@gmail.com>, Justin Byrd <justin@machi-systems.com>, Simone Alcorn <salcorn@easydynamics.com>, Isha Chhatwal <ichhatwa@gmail.com>, Jeff Brennan <jeff_brennan@sbcglobal.net>, Jorge Flores <jorge@entidad.io>, wg-riup <wg-riup@kantarainitiative.org>, Kay Chopard Cohen <kay@kantarainitiative.org>, Amanda Gay <amanda@kantarainitiative.org>
Subject: Re: [WG-RIUP] Re: RIUP WG 'brief' meeting tomorrow to vote on revisions to the Digital Identifier Inclusion doc.
Please think about the next doc without worrying much about the current one.
What needs to be said? ..tom
On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 12:41 PM Noreen Whysel <nwhysel@gmail.com> wrote:
No microchips! Haha. Maybe a wax seal with a QR code…
I actually almost started a conversation about legal issues but then deleted it. That would certainly have to be an updated version, as Tom says, if we want to get this through before Fall.
Noreen
On Aug 6, 2024, at 2:28 PM, Tom Jones <thomasclinganjones@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, they are a challenge and I know of one.
What we need are not more problems to solve but more solutions to those problems.
For care facilities we can imagine a smartphone by the bed.
For others - can we imagine some means of tracking, like smart cards on a lanyard. We may need to go very intrusive and suggest a chip as we do for our loved pets.
Be the change you want to see in the world ..tom
On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 10:48 AM Bev Corwin <bevcorwin@gmail.com> wrote:
PS FYI Please keep in mind that not all wards of state have guardians, and research is limited about wards of state without guardians and all other support services, it varies state to state, some report from14% to 84%, so there are many wards of state without anyone to help them with IDs, verification, authentication, etc., and they need to be able to request accommodation. They may not have housing, healthcare, a guardian, social worker, nor anyone to help them.
On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 1:03 PM Justin Byrd <justin@machi-systems.com> wrote:
Hi there,
I won't be able to make it to the meeting after all. I approve the document.
Vote: Yes.
Great work everyone!
-J
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Justin Byrd (He, Him)
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P: 570-820-2060
Machi-Systems, LLC.
Scranton Life Building
538 Biden St, Suite 528
Scranton, PA 18503
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From: Bev Corwin <bevcorwin@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2024 12:37:10 PM
To: peace@acm.org <peace@acm.org>
Cc: Salvatore D'Agostino <sal@idmachines.com>; Simone Alcorn <salcorn@easydynamics.com>; Isha Chhatwal <ichhatwa@gmail.com>; Jeff Brennan <jeff_brennan@sbcglobal.net>; Justin Byrd <justin@machi-systems.com>; Jorge Flores <jorge@entidad.io>; wg-riup <wg-riup@kantarainitiative.org>; Kay Chopard Cohen <kay@kantarainitiative.org>; Amanda Gay <amanda@kantarainitiative.org>
Subject: Re: [WG-RIUP] Re: RIUP WG 'brief' meeting tomorrow to vote on revisions to the Digital Identifier Inclusion doc.
Awesome, thank you for the clarification, Agreed!
On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 12:17 PM Tom Jones <thomasclinganjones@gmail.com> wrote:
Noreen - unfortunately in health situations the rights are determined (in the US) at a local gov't level. The job of this document has, here-to-fore been focused on the technical requirements of digital identifiers, not on existing legal terms, which have been implicitly accepted as de jure. We could expand the scope of the document if we want to spend more time - or we could publish what we have and then determine what is needed for a new version. ..tom
On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 9:03 AM Salvatore D'Agostino <sal@idmachines.com> wrote:
Wrt Tom, yes technically
From: Bev Corwin <bevcorwin@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2024 11:48 AM
To: peace@acm.org
Cc: Noreen Whysel <nwhysel@gmail.com>; jim kragh <kragh65@gmail.com>; Salvatore D'Agostino <sal@idmachines.com>; Simone Alcorn <salcorn@easydynamics.com>; Isha Chhatwal <ichhatwa@gmail.com>; Thomas Sullivan <tsullivan@drfirst.com>; Jeff Brennan <jeff_brennan@sbcglobal.net>; Justin Byrd <justin@machi-systems.com>; Jorge Flores <jorge@entidad.io>; wg-riup <wg-riup@kantarainitiative.org>; Kay Chopard Cohen <kay@kantarainitiative.org>; Amanda Gay <amanda@kantarainitiative.org>
Subject: Re: RIUP WG 'brief' meeting tomorrow to vote on revisions to the Digital Identifier Inclusion doc.
Tom, and if an individual is unable to "present" I disagree with your assumptions
On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 11:45 AM Tom Jones <thomasclinganjones@gmail.com> wrote:
Trust relationships may or may not be established prior to any individual transaction. They must not be made a precondition to the request for identifier information. Explaining the establishment and maintenance of trust relationships does not seem to help inclusion which is the topic at hand.
What is important is the presentation of sufficient information to allow the holder to make a trust decision.
thx ..Tom (mobile)
On Tue, Aug 6, 2024, 4:05 AM Noreen Whysel <nwhysel@gmail.com> wrote:
That is helpful, Tom. So to be clear, for the purposes of identification, a Trust Relationship is established in a data transaction once a trust anchor is verified? Ie certificate exists and data is transferred, therefore entity A is now in a Trust Relationship with Entity B.
Is this true only in a software transaction or could one diagram it in a human trust relationship that Jim is talking about? It could be that you are talking about something on two very different levels.
Noreen
On Aug 6, 2024, at 1:42 AM, Tom Jones <thomasclinganjones@gmail.com> wrote:
The problem with that is that the relationship is defined AFTER the transaction completes, whereas the value in the request is prior to to the formation of the trust relationship. The trust Anchor for health interchange is defined by onc/tefca which cannot be altered or approved by the patient.
BTW, that piece was NOT added while I was editing the doc so I cannot justify it.
thx ..Tom (mobile)
On Mon, Aug 5, 2024, 7:20 PM Noreen Whysel <nwhysel@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes. Do we need to define “trust relationship” in our lists of terms? Can we say that the trust relationship is the human component of assurance in which an individual shares data with a provider they deem trustworthy, and that the trust anchor is the technology component, embodied in a root certificate, for example, that provides identity assurance of the individual?
Noreen
On Aug 5, 2024, at 9:59 PM, kragh65@gmail.com wrote:
Tom, in the healthcare sector, especially in underserved communities a relationship with a nurse, social worker or a non-profit entity or faith based entity serving that community is where relational trust is nurtured and built. In my 20+ years in the healthcare sector, I have never heard the term “trust anchor’ used as it relates to a ‘trusted’ relationship, especially a health care relationship. But understanding you are the DII Editor and there is a taxonomy in the DII that defines what a TA is in that domain, so be it. I am grateful for your leadership and support is making this document a reality, a foundation for a potential project. On be half of our WG collogues and Kantara, thank you. I will support your recommendation. Jim
From: Tom Jones <thomasclinganjones@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2024 8:41 PM
To: jim kragh <kragh65@gmail.com>
Cc: Noreen Whysel. Brett <nwhysel@gmail.com>; Salvatore D'Agostino <sal@idmachines.com>; Simone Alcorn <salcorn@easydynamics.com>; Bev Corwin <bevcorwin@gmail.com>; Isha Chhatwal <ichhatwa@gmail.com>; Thomas Sullivan <tsullivan@drfirst.com>; Jeff Brennan <jeff_brennan@sbcglobal.net>; Justin Byrd <justin@machi-systems.com>; Jorge Flores <jorge@entidad.io>; wg-riup <wg-riup@kantarainitiative.org>; Kay Chopard Cohen <kay@kantarainitiative.org>; Amanda Gay <amanda@kantarainitiative.org>
Subject: Re: RIUP WG 'brief' meeting tomorrow to vote on revisions to the Digital Identifier Inclusion doc.
as i indicated the last time this came up, I don't know what a trust relationship is or why that would exist. The Trust Anchor is at least defined in the taxonomy.
Be the change you want to see in the world ..tom
On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 5:26 PM jim kragh <kragh65@gmail.com> wrote:
I was informed last week that we have a new 'Join Zoom Meeting #:and access code:
ATTENTION WE HAVE A N NEW Join Zoom Meeting link:
https://us06web.zoom.us/j/87605872193?pwd=HQI7AJKhLvpgtUxKyOYANVUKzsZW3U.1
Meeting ID: 876 0587 2193
Passcode: 157149 A list of call numbers was not provided and if a list of # 's are available I will ask Amanda to share such with us tomorrow morning..
Good evening!
The revised DII document link is below and Tom, Sal, Noreen and I again reviewed and addressed items that needed attention that were accepted. The
attached DII has a few fine tuning thoughts by Noreen and me for your review, comments and or corrections. Please read the document and be prepared
to vote or provide a proxy so we can forward the DII to the LC Chair; thank you.
The Kantara Leadership Council will be meeting next week, and if tomorrow our WG accepts changes made, we should be able to place the DII
in their hands for a final review and acceptance. Once that is accomplished, maybe we can find a funding source and a demonstration partner.
Tom shared with us a Homeland Security notice of six 'wallet' projects DHS was funding; surely there are others out there - let's discuss..
Have a nice evening,
Jim
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