Thanks Noreen for sharing. I’ve seen examples of FNO surnames as well and recall my surprise it’s use was “by design”. It’s an interesting design aspect to digital credentials that I have not seen discussed. Like the article says it’s an edge case but maybe there is an opportunity here? ________________________________ From: Noreen Whysel <nwhysel@gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2024 1:31:06 PM To: wg-riup <wg-riup@kantarainitiative.org> Subject: [WG-RIUP] Fwd: 2024.02.16 I thought this was an interesting discussion of “problematic” names and computer databases. Our government has attempted to solve this problem by using the surname FNO for those who do not have last names. I met a young woman with this name recently after she sent me her resume to review. It was the first time I saw that. That she has to carry it with her as a legal name/identity is interesting. It says more about her perhaps than might be desired in some circumstances. Noreen Begin forwarded message: From: gBRETT miller <gbrett@world.hey.com> Date: February 16, 2024 at 11:36:40 PM EST To: nwhysel@gmail.com Subject: 2024.02.16 Reply-To: gBRETT miller <gbrett@hey.com> A friend shared this article about the trouble some systems have with people's names. The main example they use is the last name "Null", which is an obvious potentially problematic name for several reasons. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160325-the-names-that-break-computer-sy... But not all names are tricky because they are keywords. Some have unusual punctuation, some are longer than the average input field allows. Sometimes a name has a space in it, for example if someone has two first names. Or if, like me, they use just an initial for their first name and include their middle name in the first name field. For a while, I used "G. Brett" as my first name on accounts like LinkedIn. Unfortunately, LinkedIn chose to present my name as simply "G."; less than ideal. My online handle for most sites is "gbrettmiller", so I thought why not make my first name "gbrett"? Even better, "gBRETT" so people would get that I go by Brett (and the g is silent), or could at least infer it from the spelling. Except.... ... That is an edge case that most systems don't seem to quite account for. Sometimes it gets presented as "Gbrett" ('Brett? I thought that was Garrett.'). Or it is simply all caps. I didn't start out intending to be an edge case, but now that I am it is kind of fun to play around with it and see how systems (and people) react. Which reminds me of one of my all time favorite XKCD comics. [exploits_of_a_mom_2x.png] <https://world.hey.com/gbrett/42f93e49/blobs/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaHNLd2NYekdSYyIsImV4cCI6bnVsbCwicHVyIjoiYmxvYl9pZCJ9fQ==--d3c74852170ecf444ab2bae81c2c720dac9da183/exploits_of_a_mom_2x.png?disposition=attachment> https://xkcd.com/327/ ________________________________ View this post online<https://world.hey.com/gbrett/2024-02-16-42f93e49> You’re subscribed to gBRETT miller<https://world.hey.com/gbrett> on HEY World<https://hey.com/world?source=hw-email> Don’t want these posts anymore? Unsubscribe<https://world.hey.com/gbrett/subscribers/EaiT8hsCJrfpFomo3HniGaXV/unsubscribe> HEY: PO Box 803338, PMB 53289, Chicago, Illinois 60680
I tried to capture the issue here - our industry is making the problem worse. ..tom The Naming of People Innovation has applied to Identifiers <https://tcwiki.azurewebsites.net/index.php?title=Identifier> applied to people. In Roman times, the family name (gens) was important, in Ancient Israel it was the tribal association. In western land the patronym became common. In Spain the matronym as added after the patronym. The Picts of Scotland used just the matronym. Confusion was crated when the location of these surnames turned out to very different in different part of the world. In 2024 we are still trying to reconcile these traditions with technology. 1. Dissolution of Monasteries: Henry VIII dissolved numerous monasteries and convents as part of the English Reformation. These religious institutions had often been centers of education, record-keeping, and administration. With their dissolution, many records were lost, including those containing information about lineage and family names. 2. Land Ownership and Taxation: As part of his reforms, Henry implemented a system of land ownership and taxation. To efficiently collect taxes and administer land, it became essential to have clear identification of individuals. Surnames played a crucial role in this process. 3. Formation of Parish Registers: The dissolution of monasteries also led to the establishment of parish registers. These registers recorded baptisms, marriages, and burials within parishes. Surnames were used to distinguish individuals, especially in densely populated areas. 4. Standardization and Legal Documentation: Henry’s government emphasized the need for standardized legal documentation. Surnames facilitated legal transactions, inheritance, and property rights. People began adopting fixed family names, which were passed down through generations. 5. Social Mobility and Identity: The use of surnames allowed for greater social mobility. Individuals could establish their identity beyond their occupation or location. It also provided a sense of belonging and lineage While Henry VIII didn’t explicitly demand the use of surnames, his policies indirectly encouraged their adoption. The dissolution of monasteries, administrative reforms, and the need for clear identification all contributed to the widespread use of surnames in England. Technology Unfortunately technology is created mostly in European-originated countries so we have absurdities like the following which mixes the idea of Surname (a logical type) with Firstname (a position type). Clearly this is an absurdity brought about by chauvinistic attitudes by developers.[1] <https://tcwiki.azurewebsites.net/index.php?title=Innovation#cite_note-1> "familyName": "Castafiori", "firstName": "Bianca", On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 2:38 PM Jorge Flores <jorge@entidad.io> wrote:
Thanks Noreen for sharing. I’ve seen examples of FNO surnames as well and recall my surprise it’s use was “by design”.
It’s an interesting design aspect to digital credentials that I have not seen discussed. Like the article says it’s an edge case but maybe there is an opportunity here? ------------------------------ *From:* Noreen Whysel <nwhysel@gmail.com> *Sent:* Saturday, February 17, 2024 1:31:06 PM *To:* wg-riup <wg-riup@kantarainitiative.org> *Subject:* [WG-RIUP] Fwd: 2024.02.16
I thought this was an interesting discussion of “problematic” names and computer databases. Our government has attempted to solve this problem by using the surname FNO for those who do not have last names. I met a young woman with this name recently after she sent me her resume to review. It was the first time I saw that. That she has to carry it with her as a legal name/identity is interesting. It says more about her perhaps than might be desired in some circumstances.
Noreen
Begin forwarded message:
*From:* gBRETT miller <gbrett@world.hey.com> *Date:* February 16, 2024 at 11:36:40 PM EST *To:* nwhysel@gmail.com *Subject:* *2024.02.16* *Reply-To:* gBRETT miller <gbrett@hey.com>
A friend shared this article about the trouble some systems have with people's names. The main example they use is the last name "Null", which is an obvious potentially problematic name for several reasons.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160325-the-names-that-break-computer-sy...
But not all names are tricky because they are keywords. Some have unusual punctuation, some are longer than the average input field allows. Sometimes a name has a space in it, for example if someone has two first names.
Or if, like me, they use just an initial for their first name and include their middle name in the first name field. For a while, I used "G. Brett" as my first name on accounts like LinkedIn. Unfortunately, LinkedIn chose to present my name as simply "G."; less than ideal.
My online handle for most sites is "gbrettmiller", so I thought why not make my first name "gbrett"? Even better, "gBRETT" so people would get that I go by Brett (and the g is silent), or could at least infer it from the spelling. Except....
... That is an edge case that most systems don't seem to quite account for. Sometimes it gets presented as "Gbrett" ('Brett? I thought that was Garrett.'). Or it is simply all caps.
I didn't start out intending to be an edge case, but now that I am it is kind of fun to play around with it and see how systems (and people) react.
Which reminds me of one of my all time favorite XKCD comics.
[image: exploits_of_a_mom_2x.png] <https://world.hey.com/gbrett/42f93e49/blobs/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaHNLd2NYekdSYyIsImV4cCI6bnVsbCwicHVyIjoiYmxvYl9pZCJ9fQ==--d3c74852170ecf444ab2bae81c2c720dac9da183/exploits_of_a_mom_2x.png?disposition=attachment>
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participants (3)
-
Jorge Flores -
Noreen Whysel -
Tom Jones