Re: [WG-UMA] Draft minutes of UMA telecon 2021-11-18

Hi Justin, For the last few days, I've been trying to make POCOP compatible with Macaroons, but so far unsuccessful. The POCOP approach differs substantially from Macaroons. Macaroons caveats are anonymous, anybody can append a new caveat, you should only trust restrictive claims in a caveat. POCOP claims are authenticated, you can trust any claims. Macaroons are based on the HMAC(HMAC(HMAC(K1, m1), m2, m3)) construction. POCOP is based on the HMAC(K3, HMAC(HMAC(K2, HMAC(HMAC(K1, m1), m2)), m3)) construction. Regards -Igor On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 6:16 PM Justin Richer wrote:

Igor,

I was unable to make the meeting, but how does your POCOP approach differ from Macaroons and the caveat system there?

— Justin

On Nov 19, 2021, at 11:15 AM, Igor Zboran wrote:

Hi all,

I'd like to give more context/information.

"POCOP Tokens" is my personal research activity aimed at exploring the possibility of using nested, chained HMAC constructions in authorization processes. Some nested, chained HMACs have an interesting feature, they don't need to share keys between "nests" to generate the verifiable MAC. Such constructions address, for example, a scenario when one resource server needs to access another resource server in order to fulfill the client request that uses a self-issued token.

Your comments are valuable, thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it.

-Igor

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 8:12 PM Alec Laws wrote:

...

https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-11-18

UMA telecon 2021-11-18Date and Time

- *Primary-week Thursdays 06:30am PT; Secondary-week Thursdays 10:00am PT* - Screenshare and dial-in: https://zoom.us/j/99487814311?pwd=dTAvZi9uN0ZmeXJReWRrc1Zycm5KZz09 - United States: +1 (224) 501-3316, Access Code: 485-071-053 - See UMA calendar for additional details: http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/Calendar

Agenda

- Approve minutes of UMA telecon 2021-09-09 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-09-09 , UMA telecon 2021-09-16 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-09-16 , UMA telecon 2021-09-23 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-09-23 , UMA telecon 2021-09-30 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-09-30 , UMA telecon 2021-10-14 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-10-14 , UMA telecon 2021-10-21 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-10-21 , UMA telecon 2021-10-28 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-10-28 , UMA telecon 2021-11-04 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-11-04 , UMA telecon 2021-11-11 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-11-11 - Delegation Use Cases - Proof of Chain of Possession (POCOP) Tokens - AOB

MinutesRoll call

- Quorum: No

Approve minutes

- Approve minutes of UMA telecon 2021-09-09 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-09-09 , UMA telecon 2021-09-16 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-09-16 , UMA telecon 2021-09-23 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-09-23 , UMA telecon 2021-09-30 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-09-30 , UMA telecon 2021-10-14 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-10-14 , UMA telecon 2021-10-21 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-10-21 , UMA telecon 2021-10-28 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-10-28 , UMA telecon 2021-11-04 https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+telecon+2021-11-04

Deferred

*The Kantara All members meeting is Dec 8th, 11-1230ET (it's virtual, link TBD)*

Delegation Use Cases

Reviewed more pp2pi https://www.drummondgroup.com/pp2pi/ use-cases, broken down by objective and mapped to whther uma or uma delegation can meet the goal

Will continue this discussion next week

- payer insurance codes are often opaque to the patient/covered person

Proof of Chain of Possession (POCOP) Tokens

https://github.com/uma-email/poc

A client can use any IDToken with any UMA ticket. The Correlated Authorization mechanism ensures that there is some open UMA transactional context included in any pushed ID claims

What is the threat that Proof of Possession https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-oauth-dpop-04 (or mTLS) doens't address that requires the "chronological tamper-resistant record"?

Report on FHIR Vulns

reviewed some initial diagrams for this: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1aDTD6nv5vza8gDsSRGV6X5tzRoQdIv5V9aU8...

- FHIR itself is simply the data model - FHIR had the author refine their statement that it was 'FHIR Implmentations' that had the vulnerabilities - SMART on FHIR is the HL7 'approved' authorization strategy - UDAP → artifacts that needs to exist from a trust framework to support DCR/wide-access - HEART → profiles of OAuth/UMA for SMARTonFHIR scopes

AOB

- We are planning a 3 hour working session on December 9th, we will use extend the normal call from 930-1230ET - Want to make progress on some of the in-progress docs, have them in a consistent state - Eve, Nancy, Alec, Andi - If you're up to attend, please email Alec, or leave a comment on these minutes

Topic Candidates (from previous telcons)

- Delegation and Guardianship - Outcome of user stories discussion - PDP architecture includes the concept of governance registry/discovery - TOIP/SSI are starting to define this ecosystem function - ANCR records update - Privacy as Expected/ANCR update : 2/3 weeks out (Sal?)

Attendees

As of October 26, 2020, quorum http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/Participant+Roster is 5 of 9. (Michael, Domenico, Peter, Sal, Thomas, Andi, Alec, Eve, Steve)

Voting:

1. Steve 2. Alec

Non-voting participants:

1. Scott G 2. Scott F

Regrets:

1. Sal 2. Nancy 3. Eve

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