Thanks for the notes; nice discussion. Definitely single DS, multiple RRA scenario begs a solution as I find myself in that all the time; quite frustrating: A minor under the care of both parents -> Health service/nursery/<plug any service> registration always struggle with having both parents as RRA; cannot typically assign them equal rights. I think multiple DS (in the joint bank account scenario) would typically have multiple RRAs (i.e, both DSes self-managing) or may have a single RRA (i.e., one DS came under the care of the other one). Thanks, --Cigdem From: WG-UMA on behalf of Eve Maler Date: Tuesday, 5 November 2019 at 21:31 To: "wg-uma@kantarainitiative.org WG" Subject: [WG-UMA] Notes from 2019-11-05 UMA business-legal framework telecon https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/uma/UMA+legal+subgroup+note... 2019-11-05 Attending: Eve, Nancy, Tim (regrets: Cigdem, Andi) We have been dealing with the "multiple RRAs" state table as if there is always and only a single DS. For simplicity, perhaps we should continue in this vein. It would be insanely complex to imagine that there are multiple DS's as well. The "co-equal rights" question is about resource administration rights specifically. However, a number of real-life use cases have the "multiple DS" situation: joint bank accounts where both account holders should have exactly equal rights, etc. In implementation, this is a problem and is generally handled badly, in that one person is made "primary" and the other(s) "secondary. In some use cases this divide is appropriate (main householder vs. other people in the household for digital streaming services), but for things like a joint bank account or other spouse-type membership accounts, both/all holders should really be co-equal – until such time as there is a divorce or other split and the number of DS's goes back down to exactly 1. What if two brothers share a bank account and one of them has to be removed from managing it for malfeasance and the other brother is managing it for the two of them, somewhat like in the Gravity Payments case? To clarify whether we need to focus on multiple-DS use cases and whether they are sufficiently valuable to solve, Eve will ask an FSI/bank expert to join us at our next meeting. Nancy will do the same for a genomic data expert. The current use cases that we've mentioned under State 3 in the table ("joint bank account each with equal access, joint tenancy") look like they're not actually correct because they probably refer to multiple DS's, so we have to sort out whether we're going to treat multiple DS's or not, and move the use cases over if so. AI: Nancy and Eve: Find experts to join our next call to establish existence and priority of multiple-DS use cases in different sectors. Eve Maler Cell or Signal +1 425.345.6756 | Skype: xmlgrrl | Twitter: @xmlgrrl