Graphic to attempt to capture what James was saying
[image: Inline images 1] Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN> Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca -- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/About/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram (Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the mailing list.) On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
[image: Inline images 1]
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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John M. pointed out that the non-natural person was missing, so I redid it as attached: Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN> Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/ About/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram
(Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the mailing list.)
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
[image: Inline images 1]
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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-- @commonaccord
-- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
I don't think of a device as being in a kind of person. It's something like the place that information is stored. Not even an identity. I can change phones. At a really technical (coding) level, this gets more complicated, but in the "graph" of relationships, it doesn't matter which computer I use to write this message. On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:26 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
John M. pointed out that the non-natural person was missing, so I redid it as attached:
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/Ab out/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram
(Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the mailing list.)
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
[image: Inline images 1]
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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-- @commonaccord
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
-- @commonaccord
James, That would only be true in abstract. In reality both phones have an identity. The human creates a new relationship with that new phone, and hopefully disconnects the relationship with the old phone. John John Moehrke Principal Engineering Architect: Standards - Interoperability, Privacy, and Security CyberPrivacy – Enabling authorized communications while respecting Privacy M +1 920-564-2067 JohnMoehrke@gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmoehrke https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" ("Who watches the watchers?") On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:55 PM, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think of a device as being in a kind of person. It's something like the place that information is stored. Not even an identity. I can change phones. At a really technical (coding) level, this gets more complicated, but in the "graph" of relationships, it doesn't matter which computer I use to write this message.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:26 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
John M. pointed out that the non-natural person was missing, so I redid it as attached:
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/Ab out/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram
(Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the mailing list.)
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
[image: Inline images 1]
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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-- @commonaccord
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
-- @commonaccord
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It not a question about identities or 'phones'. It can be anything which can act on 'behalf' of a real or legal person, directly or indirectly (with a ton of relations in between). I prefer to talk about 'entities' and their relations (Entity Relationship Management), which is represented by a graph. my 2 cent T. On 29.11.2016 20:37, John Moehrke wrote:
James, phones or
That would only be true in abstract. In reality both phones have an identity. The human creates a new relationship with that new phone, and hopefully disconnects the relationship with the old phone.
John
John Moehrke Principal Engineering Architect: Standards - Interoperability, Privacy, and Security CyberPrivacy – Enabling authorized communications while respecting Privacy M +1 920-564-2067 JohnMoehrke@gmail.com <mailto:JohnMoehrke@gmail.com> https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmoehrke https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" ("Who watches the watchers?")
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:55 PM, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com <mailto:james.g.hazard@gmail.com>> wrote:
I don't think of a device as being in a kind of person. It's something like the place that information is stored. Not even an identity. I can change phones. At a really technical (coding) level, this gets more complicated, but in the "graph" of relationships, it doesn't matter which computer I use to write this message.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:26 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca <mailto:john@wunderlich.ca>> wrote:
John M. pointed out that the non-natural person was missing, so I redid it as attached:
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <tel:%28647%29%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca <mailto:john@wunderlich.ca>
On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com <mailto:james.g.hazard@gmail.com>> wrote:
This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/About/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram <http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/About/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram>
(Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the mailing list.)
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca <mailto:john@wunderlich.ca>> wrote:
Inline images 1
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <tel:%2B1%20%28647%29%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca <mailto:john@wunderlich.ca>
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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-- @commonaccord
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
-- @commonaccord
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Thorsten, I think what you said is consistent with what I said on the call today. This is why the relationship is important, but independent from identity. John John Moehrke Principal Engineering Architect: Standards - Interoperability, Privacy, and Security CyberPrivacy – Enabling authorized communications while respecting Privacy M +1 920-564-2067 JohnMoehrke@gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmoehrke https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" ("Who watches the watchers?") On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 1:50 PM, Thorsten H. Niebuhr [WedaCon GmbH] < tniebuhr@wedacon.net> wrote:
It not a question about identities or 'phones'. It can be anything which can act on 'behalf' of a real or legal person, directly or indirectly (with a ton of relations in between). I prefer to talk about 'entities' and their relations (Entity Relationship Management), which is represented by a graph.
my 2 cent
T.
On 29.11.2016 20:37, John Moehrke wrote:
James, phones or
That would only be true in abstract. In reality both phones have an identity. The human creates a new relationship with that new phone, and hopefully disconnects the relationship with the old phone.
John
John Moehrke Principal Engineering Architect: Standards - Interoperability, Privacy, and Security CyberPrivacy – Enabling authorized communications while respecting Privacy M +1 920-564-2067 JohnMoehrke@gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmoehrke https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" ("Who watches the watchers?")
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:55 PM, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think of a device as being in a kind of person. It's something like the place that information is stored. Not even an identity. I can change phones. At a really technical (coding) level, this gets more complicated, but in the "graph" of relationships, it doesn't matter which computer I use to write this message.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:26 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
John M. pointed out that the non-natural person was missing, so I redid it as attached:
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <%28647%29%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/Ab out/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram
(Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the mailing list.)
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
[image: Inline images 1]
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <%2B1%20%28647%29%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
_______________________________________________ DG-BSC mailing list DG-BSC@kantarainitiative.org http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-bsc
-- @commonaccord
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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Hi John, I am sorry to have missed that call... (especially because of the relationship topics....) :) T. On 29.11.2016 21:41, John Moehrke wrote:
Thorsten,
I think what you said is consistent with what I said on the call today. This is why the relationship is important, but independent from identity.
John
John Moehrke Principal Engineering Architect: Standards - Interoperability, Privacy, and Security CyberPrivacy – Enabling authorized communications while respecting Privacy M +1 920-564-2067 JohnMoehrke@gmail.com <mailto:JohnMoehrke@gmail.com> https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmoehrke https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" ("Who watches the watchers?")
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 1:50 PM, Thorsten H. Niebuhr [WedaCon GmbH] <tniebuhr@wedacon.net <mailto:tniebuhr@wedacon.net>> wrote:
It not a question about identities or 'phones'. It can be anything which can act on 'behalf' of a real or legal person, directly or indirectly (with a ton of relations in between). I prefer to talk about 'entities' and their relations (Entity Relationship Management), which is represented by a graph.
my 2 cent
T.
On 29.11.2016 20:37, John Moehrke wrote:
James, phones or
That would only be true in abstract. In reality both phones have an identity. The human creates a new relationship with that new phone, and hopefully disconnects the relationship with the old phone.
John
John Moehrke Principal Engineering Architect: Standards - Interoperability, Privacy, and Security CyberPrivacy – Enabling authorized communications while respecting Privacy M +1 920-564-2067 <tel:%2B1%20920-564-2067> JohnMoehrke@gmail.com <mailto:JohnMoehrke@gmail.com> https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmoehrke <https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmoehrke> https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com <https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com> "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" ("Who watches the watchers?")
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:55 PM, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com <mailto:james.g.hazard@gmail.com>> wrote:
I don't think of a device as being in a kind of person. It's something like the place that information is stored. Not even an identity. I can change phones. At a really technical (coding) level, this gets more complicated, but in the "graph" of relationships, it doesn't matter which computer I use to write this message.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:26 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca <mailto:john@wunderlich.ca>> wrote:
John M. pointed out that the non-natural person was missing, so I redid it as attached:
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <tel:%28647%29%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca <mailto:john@wunderlich.ca>
On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com <mailto:james.g.hazard@gmail.com>> wrote:
This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/About/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram <http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/About/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram>
(Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the mailing list.)
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca <mailto:john@wunderlich.ca>> wrote:
Inline images 1
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <tel:%2B1%20%28647%29%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca <mailto:john@wunderlich.ca>
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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-- @commonaccord
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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I am sorry to have missed it as well. Was at the Wall Street Blockchain conference which was discussing Smart Contracts, Blockchain in general within financial services, etc. On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Thorsten H. Niebuhr [WedaCon GmbH] < tniebuhr@wedacon.net> wrote:
Hi John,
I am sorry to have missed that call...
(especially because of the relationship topics....)
:)
T.
On 29.11.2016 21:41, John Moehrke wrote:
Thorsten,
I think what you said is consistent with what I said on the call today. This is why the relationship is important, but independent from identity.
John
John Moehrke Principal Engineering Architect: Standards - Interoperability, Privacy, and Security CyberPrivacy – Enabling authorized communications while respecting Privacy M +1 920-564-2067 <(920)%20564-2067> JohnMoehrke@gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmoehrke https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" ("Who watches the watchers?")
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 1:50 PM, Thorsten H. Niebuhr [WedaCon GmbH] < tniebuhr@wedacon.net> wrote:
It not a question about identities or 'phones'. It can be anything which can act on 'behalf' of a real or legal person, directly or indirectly (with a ton of relations in between). I prefer to talk about 'entities' and their relations (Entity Relationship Management), which is represented by a graph.
my 2 cent
T.
On 29.11.2016 20:37, John Moehrke wrote:
James, phones or
That would only be true in abstract. In reality both phones have an identity. The human creates a new relationship with that new phone, and hopefully disconnects the relationship with the old phone.
John
John Moehrke Principal Engineering Architect: Standards - Interoperability, Privacy, and Security CyberPrivacy – Enabling authorized communications while respecting Privacy M +1 920-564-2067 <%2B1%20920-564-2067> JohnMoehrke@gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmoehrke https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" ("Who watches the watchers?")
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:55 PM, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think of a device as being in a kind of person. It's something like the place that information is stored. Not even an identity. I can change phones. At a really technical (coding) level, this gets more complicated, but in the "graph" of relationships, it doesn't matter which computer I use to write this message.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:26 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
John M. pointed out that the non-natural person was missing, so I redid it as attached:
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <%28647%29%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/Ab out/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram
(Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the mailing list.)
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
[image: Inline images 1]
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <%2B1%20%28647%29%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
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Tossed it together in a hurry. I used 'device' is a proxy for 'non-natural person'. Might have been better to put API there as a proxy for the endpoint of multiple types of transactions. Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN> Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca On 29 November 2016 at 13:55, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think of a device as being in a kind of person. It's something like the place that information is stored. Not even an identity. I can change phones. At a really technical (coding) level, this gets more complicated, but in the "graph" of relationships, it doesn't matter which computer I use to write this message.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:26 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
John M. pointed out that the non-natural person was missing, so I redid it as attached:
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/Ab out/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram
(Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the mailing list.)
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
[image: Inline images 1]
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
-- @commonaccord
-- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
Roughing in this idea - testing my own thoughts. I think "devices" are at a different layer than identities, persons, meat. They aren't part of the graph of relationships. Again, roughing it, there seem to be three layers that are relevant: 1. "reality" - meat, things, stuff (things we don't treat as things), places, time, etc. 2. devices - the infrastructure on which the data model is maintained. Devices depend on further infrastructure, such as communication protocols, wires and power supplies. This is, I suppose, the "(sync" part. 3. a graph of relationships - the subject of Eve's (relationship (identity (person (meat)))) and John's diagrams. The "internet of things" is of course transactions among devices and not the "things" themselves. The devices support bookkeeping and control of the things.
From my work, the graph of relationships seems to need objects (nodes) for:
From my perspective, the graph of relationships is a different layer than
1. (relationship - this can be a combination of legal prose and code. The archetype of an increment in a relationship is signing a new agreement, but each notice or payment is also an increment. Becoming a citizen of a country or member of a club are broad examples of incrementing relationships with many persons via an interaction with a single person. 2. (identity - this is something like a role, or account. A bank account is a good archetype. "Identities" can be nested, an identity can relate to identities. E.g. I make a contribution from my account to a pool to make an investment or gift, or into an escrow to make a purchase, which may not have legal "personality." 3. (person - some relationships among humans are treated by legal systems as "persons" Persons also have nested relationships, e.g. an agent, employee, subsidiary. 4. (meat - humans. The part we care about. 5. places - addresses etc. 6. properties - cars, houses, patent rights, money ... 7. facts - my focus is the legal docs and I haven't broken down facts very much. the devices. A bank statement does not mention the computer on which the bank generated the document. On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:14 PM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
Tossed it together in a hurry. I used 'device' is a proxy for 'non-natural person'. Might have been better to put API there as a proxy for the endpoint of multiple types of transactions.
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 13:55, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think of a device as being in a kind of person. It's something like the place that information is stored. Not even an identity. I can change phones. At a really technical (coding) level, this gets more complicated, but in the "graph" of relationships, it doesn't matter which computer I use to write this message.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:26 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
John M. pointed out that the non-natural person was missing, so I redid it as attached:
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/Ab out/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram
(Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the mailing list.)
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
[image: Inline images 1]
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
_______________________________________________ DG-BSC mailing list DG-BSC@kantarainitiative.org http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-bsc
-- @commonaccord
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
-- @commonaccord
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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I think your assertion that we only care about the humans is wrong. The 'things' that these humans authorize to act on their behalf are very important identities with important relationships. It might be true that identifying these 'things' is easier, less fuzzy. But they must be in the picture. John John Moehrke Principal Engineering Architect: Standards - Interoperability, Privacy, and Security CyberPrivacy – Enabling authorized communications while respecting Privacy M +1 920-564-2067 JohnMoehrke@gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmoehrke https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" ("Who watches the watchers?") On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 9:18 AM, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
Roughing in this idea - testing my own thoughts.
I think "devices" are at a different layer than identities, persons, meat. They aren't part of the graph of relationships.
Again, roughing it, there seem to be three layers that are relevant:
1. "reality" - meat, things, stuff (things we don't treat as things), places, time, etc. 2. devices - the infrastructure on which the data model is maintained. Devices depend on further infrastructure, such as communication protocols, wires and power supplies. This is, I suppose, the "(sync" part. 3. a graph of relationships - the subject of Eve's (relationship (identity (person (meat)))) and John's diagrams.
The "internet of things" is of course transactions among devices and not the "things" themselves. The devices support bookkeeping and control of the things.
From my work, the graph of relationships seems to need objects (nodes) for:
1. (relationship - this can be a combination of legal prose and code. The archetype of an increment in a relationship is signing a new agreement, but each notice or payment is also an increment. Becoming a citizen of a country or member of a club are broad examples of incrementing relationships with many persons via an interaction with a single person. 2. (identity - this is something like a role, or account. A bank account is a good archetype. "Identities" can be nested, an identity can relate to identities. E.g. I make a contribution from my account to a pool to make an investment or gift, or into an escrow to make a purchase, which may not have legal "personality." 3. (person - some relationships among humans are treated by legal systems as "persons" Persons also have nested relationships, e.g. an agent, employee, subsidiary. 4. (meat - humans. The part we care about. 5. places - addresses etc. 6. properties - cars, houses, patent rights, money ... 7. facts - my focus is the legal docs and I haven't broken down facts very much.
From my perspective, the graph of relationships is a different layer than the devices. A bank statement does not mention the computer on which the bank generated the document.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:14 PM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
Tossed it together in a hurry. I used 'device' is a proxy for 'non-natural person'. Might have been better to put API there as a proxy for the endpoint of multiple types of transactions.
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 13:55, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think of a device as being in a kind of person. It's something like the place that information is stored. Not even an identity. I can change phones. At a really technical (coding) level, this gets more complicated, but in the "graph" of relationships, it doesn't matter which computer I use to write this message.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:26 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
John M. pointed out that the non-natural person was missing, so I redid it as attached:
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/Ab out/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram
(Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the mailing list.)
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
[image: Inline images 1]
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
_______________________________________________ DG-BSC mailing list DG-BSC@kantarainitiative.org http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-bsc
-- @commonaccord
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
-- @commonaccord
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
-- @commonaccord
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In the abstract, relationships are connections between endpoints. The two extremes of this are two people talking in a cafe and two api's transferring data over the Internet. If that's the case, then the relationships are defined by out of band tacit or explicit understandings between the entities with agency that are responsible for controlling the endpoints of the connection(s). That gives us the following items: Content Connection Endpoint Entity responsible for endpoint Agreement/understanding between entities that defines allowable content, acceptable connections, endpoint definitions and mutual rights and responsibilities between entities. JW Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN> Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca On 30 November 2016 at 11:00, John Moehrke <johnmoehrke@gmail.com> wrote:
I think your assertion that we only care about the humans is wrong. The 'things' that these humans authorize to act on their behalf are very important identities with important relationships. It might be true that identifying these 'things' is easier, less fuzzy. But they must be in the picture.
John
John Moehrke Principal Engineering Architect: Standards - Interoperability, Privacy, and Security CyberPrivacy – Enabling authorized communications while respecting Privacy M +1 920-564-2067 <(920)%20564-2067> JohnMoehrke@gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmoehrke https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" ("Who watches the watchers?")
On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 9:18 AM, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
Roughing in this idea - testing my own thoughts.
I think "devices" are at a different layer than identities, persons, meat. They aren't part of the graph of relationships.
Again, roughing it, there seem to be three layers that are relevant:
1. "reality" - meat, things, stuff (things we don't treat as things), places, time, etc. 2. devices - the infrastructure on which the data model is maintained. Devices depend on further infrastructure, such as communication protocols, wires and power supplies. This is, I suppose, the "(sync" part. 3. a graph of relationships - the subject of Eve's (relationship (identity (person (meat)))) and John's diagrams.
The "internet of things" is of course transactions among devices and not the "things" themselves. The devices support bookkeeping and control of the things.
From my work, the graph of relationships seems to need objects (nodes) for:
1. (relationship - this can be a combination of legal prose and code. The archetype of an increment in a relationship is signing a new agreement, but each notice or payment is also an increment. Becoming a citizen of a country or member of a club are broad examples of incrementing relationships with many persons via an interaction with a single person. 2. (identity - this is something like a role, or account. A bank account is a good archetype. "Identities" can be nested, an identity can relate to identities. E.g. I make a contribution from my account to a pool to make an investment or gift, or into an escrow to make a purchase, which may not have legal "personality." 3. (person - some relationships among humans are treated by legal systems as "persons" Persons also have nested relationships, e.g. an agent, employee, subsidiary. 4. (meat - humans. The part we care about. 5. places - addresses etc. 6. properties - cars, houses, patent rights, money ... 7. facts - my focus is the legal docs and I haven't broken down facts very much.
From my perspective, the graph of relationships is a different layer than the devices. A bank statement does not mention the computer on which the bank generated the document.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:14 PM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
Tossed it together in a hurry. I used 'device' is a proxy for 'non-natural person'. Might have been better to put API there as a proxy for the endpoint of multiple types of transactions.
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 13:55, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think of a device as being in a kind of person. It's something like the place that information is stored. Not even an identity. I can change phones. At a really technical (coding) level, this gets more complicated, but in the "graph" of relationships, it doesn't matter which computer I use to write this message.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:26 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
John M. pointed out that the non-natural person was missing, so I redid it as attached:
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/Ab out/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram
(Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the mailing list.)
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
> > [image: Inline images 1] > > Sincerely, > John Wunderlich > @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN> > > Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 > eMail: john@wunderlich.ca > > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are > addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the > system manager. This message contains confidential information and is > intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee > you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify > the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by > mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the > intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing > or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is > strictly prohibited. > > _______________________________________________ > DG-BSC mailing list > DG-BSC@kantarainitiative.org > http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-bsc > >
-- @commonaccord
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
-- @commonaccord
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
-- @commonaccord
_______________________________________________ DG-BSC mailing list DG-BSC@kantarainitiative.org http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-bsc
-- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
That seems right. Practically, we think of it as: - a Record, that has a parameters and references its context. - Context, which is other Records that primarily represent: - a prior step in the interaction, if there is one - legal framing - code This investment note is a simple example that involves only legal framing - it establishes the terms of a relationship between an investor and a company. http://source.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=source&file=F/Demo/Note_YC/Cap_Discount.md On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 8:15 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
In the abstract, relationships are connections between endpoints. The two extremes of this are two people talking in a cafe and two api's transferring data over the Internet. If that's the case, then the relationships are defined by out of band tacit or explicit understandings between the entities with agency that are responsible for controlling the endpoints of the connection(s). That gives us the following items:
Content Connection Endpoint Entity responsible for endpoint Agreement/understanding between entities that defines allowable content, acceptable connections, endpoint definitions and mutual rights and responsibilities between entities.
JW
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 30 November 2016 at 11:00, John Moehrke <johnmoehrke@gmail.com> wrote:
I think your assertion that we only care about the humans is wrong. The 'things' that these humans authorize to act on their behalf are very important identities with important relationships. It might be true that identifying these 'things' is easier, less fuzzy. But they must be in the picture.
John
John Moehrke Principal Engineering Architect: Standards - Interoperability, Privacy, and Security CyberPrivacy – Enabling authorized communications while respecting Privacy M +1 920-564-2067 <(920)%20564-2067> JohnMoehrke@gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmoehrke https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" ("Who watches the watchers?")
On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 9:18 AM, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
Roughing in this idea - testing my own thoughts.
I think "devices" are at a different layer than identities, persons, meat. They aren't part of the graph of relationships.
Again, roughing it, there seem to be three layers that are relevant:
1. "reality" - meat, things, stuff (things we don't treat as things), places, time, etc. 2. devices - the infrastructure on which the data model is maintained. Devices depend on further infrastructure, such as communication protocols, wires and power supplies. This is, I suppose, the "(sync" part. 3. a graph of relationships - the subject of Eve's (relationship (identity (person (meat)))) and John's diagrams.
The "internet of things" is of course transactions among devices and not the "things" themselves. The devices support bookkeeping and control of the things.
From my work, the graph of relationships seems to need objects (nodes) for:
1. (relationship - this can be a combination of legal prose and code. The archetype of an increment in a relationship is signing a new agreement, but each notice or payment is also an increment. Becoming a citizen of a country or member of a club are broad examples of incrementing relationships with many persons via an interaction with a single person. 2. (identity - this is something like a role, or account. A bank account is a good archetype. "Identities" can be nested, an identity can relate to identities. E.g. I make a contribution from my account to a pool to make an investment or gift, or into an escrow to make a purchase, which may not have legal "personality." 3. (person - some relationships among humans are treated by legal systems as "persons" Persons also have nested relationships, e.g. an agent, employee, subsidiary. 4. (meat - humans. The part we care about. 5. places - addresses etc. 6. properties - cars, houses, patent rights, money ... 7. facts - my focus is the legal docs and I haven't broken down facts very much.
From my perspective, the graph of relationships is a different layer than the devices. A bank statement does not mention the computer on which the bank generated the document.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:14 PM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
Tossed it together in a hurry. I used 'device' is a proxy for 'non-natural person'. Might have been better to put API there as a proxy for the endpoint of multiple types of transactions.
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 13:55, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think of a device as being in a kind of person. It's something like the place that information is stored. Not even an identity. I can change phones. At a really technical (coding) level, this gets more complicated, but in the "graph" of relationships, it doesn't matter which computer I use to write this message.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:26 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
John M. pointed out that the non-natural person was missing, so I redid it as attached:
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
> This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one > by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/ > index.php?action=doc&file=S/About/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram > > (Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on > enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the > mailing list.) > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca > > wrote: > >> >> [image: Inline images 1] >> >> Sincerely, >> John Wunderlich >> @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN> >> >> Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 >> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca >> >> >> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and >> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are >> addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the >> system manager. This message contains confidential information and is >> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee >> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify >> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by >> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the >> intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing >> or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is >> strictly prohibited. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> DG-BSC mailing list >> DG-BSC@kantarainitiative.org >> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-bsc >> >> > > > -- > @commonaccord >
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thought I would share this... https://www.cnet.com/news/snoopers-charter-investigatory-powers-bill- royal-assent-surveillance-uk/ On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 4:07 PM, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
That seems right.
Practically, we think of it as:
- a Record, that has a parameters and references its context. - Context, which is other Records that primarily represent: - a prior step in the interaction, if there is one - legal framing - code
This investment note is a simple example that involves only legal framing - it establishes the terms of a relationship between an investor and a company. http://source.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=source& file=F/Demo/Note_YC/Cap_Discount.md
On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 8:15 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
In the abstract, relationships are connections between endpoints. The two extremes of this are two people talking in a cafe and two api's transferring data over the Internet. If that's the case, then the relationships are defined by out of band tacit or explicit understandings between the entities with agency that are responsible for controlling the endpoints of the connection(s). That gives us the following items:
Content Connection Endpoint Entity responsible for endpoint Agreement/understanding between entities that defines allowable content, acceptable connections, endpoint definitions and mutual rights and responsibilities between entities.
JW
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 30 November 2016 at 11:00, John Moehrke <johnmoehrke@gmail.com> wrote:
I think your assertion that we only care about the humans is wrong. The 'things' that these humans authorize to act on their behalf are very important identities with important relationships. It might be true that identifying these 'things' is easier, less fuzzy. But they must be in the picture.
John
John Moehrke Principal Engineering Architect: Standards - Interoperability, Privacy, and Security CyberPrivacy – Enabling authorized communications while respecting Privacy M +1 920-564-2067 <(920)%20564-2067> JohnMoehrke@gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmoehrke https://healthcaresecprivacy.blogspot.com "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" ("Who watches the watchers?")
On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 9:18 AM, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
Roughing in this idea - testing my own thoughts.
I think "devices" are at a different layer than identities, persons, meat. They aren't part of the graph of relationships.
Again, roughing it, there seem to be three layers that are relevant:
1. "reality" - meat, things, stuff (things we don't treat as things), places, time, etc. 2. devices - the infrastructure on which the data model is maintained. Devices depend on further infrastructure, such as communication protocols, wires and power supplies. This is, I suppose, the "(sync" part. 3. a graph of relationships - the subject of Eve's (relationship (identity (person (meat)))) and John's diagrams.
The "internet of things" is of course transactions among devices and not the "things" themselves. The devices support bookkeeping and control of the things.
From my work, the graph of relationships seems to need objects (nodes) for:
1. (relationship - this can be a combination of legal prose and code. The archetype of an increment in a relationship is signing a new agreement, but each notice or payment is also an increment. Becoming a citizen of a country or member of a club are broad examples of incrementing relationships with many persons via an interaction with a single person. 2. (identity - this is something like a role, or account. A bank account is a good archetype. "Identities" can be nested, an identity can relate to identities. E.g. I make a contribution from my account to a pool to make an investment or gift, or into an escrow to make a purchase, which may not have legal "personality." 3. (person - some relationships among humans are treated by legal systems as "persons" Persons also have nested relationships, e.g. an agent, employee, subsidiary. 4. (meat - humans. The part we care about. 5. places - addresses etc. 6. properties - cars, houses, patent rights, money ... 7. facts - my focus is the legal docs and I haven't broken down facts very much.
From my perspective, the graph of relationships is a different layer than the devices. A bank statement does not mention the computer on which the bank generated the document.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:14 PM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
Tossed it together in a hurry. I used 'device' is a proxy for 'non-natural person'. Might have been better to put API there as a proxy for the endpoint of multiple types of transactions.
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 13:55, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think of a device as being in a kind of person. It's something like the place that information is stored. Not even an identity. I can change phones. At a really technical (coding) level, this gets more complicated, but in the "graph" of relationships, it doesn't matter which computer I use to write this message.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:26 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
> John M. pointed out that the non-natural person was missing, so I > redid it as attached: > > > > > Sincerely, > John Wunderlich > @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN> > > Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> > eMail: john@wunderlich.ca > > On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com > > wrote: > >> This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one >> by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/ >> index.php?action=doc&file=S/About/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram >> >> (Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on >> enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the >> mailing list.) >> >> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich < >> john@wunderlich.ca> wrote: >> >>> >>> [image: Inline images 1] >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> John Wunderlich >>> @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN> >>> >>> Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 >>> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca >>> >>> >>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and >>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are >>> addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the >>> system manager. This message contains confidential information and is >>> intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee >>> you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify >>> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by >>> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the >>> intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing >>> or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is >>> strictly prohibited. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> DG-BSC mailing list >>> DG-BSC@kantarainitiative.org >>> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-bsc >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> @commonaccord >> > > > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are > addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the > system manager. This message contains confidential information and is > intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee > you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify > the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by > mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the > intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing > or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is > strictly prohibited. >
-- @commonaccord
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Very similar, in some respects, to the diagram Mary Hodder and I worked on a couple of IIW's ago, and which I used in a more tailored fashion for my white paper on GDPR and Privacy by Design for JLINC Labs: http://www.jlinclabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/JLINC_WP_GDPRandPB_20161... Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN> Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/ About/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram
(Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the mailing list.)
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
[image: Inline images 1]
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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-- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
It would be interesting to see what the diagram on page 2 that you did with Mary would look like if we assume a bank as host of PII and a bank regulator as "blockchain" to which the bank writes hashes of its collection of accounts. With perhaps bank regulators hashing to two places: i) a national registry and ii) an international banking authority. On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:30 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
Very similar, in some respects, to the diagram Mary Hodder and I worked on a couple of IIW's ago, and which I used in a more tailored fashion for my white paper on GDPR and Privacy by Design for JLINC Labs: http://www.jlinclabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/JLINC_WP_GDPRandPB_ 20161022.pdf
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/Ab out/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram
(Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the mailing list.)
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
[image: Inline images 1]
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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James; That would be ...interesting... When the Medici et al invented banking and started keeping private ledgers so that they could be intermediaries of trust, their inheritors (banks) gained enormous power. Depending on the specifics of how/what you require the banks to write to the public ledgers for the banking authorities, it has the potential to: 1. Limit capital flight/tax avoidance by requiring large transactions to the blockchain so that the regulator can see source/destination amount; and/or 2. Curtail the singular financial power of the banks as intermediaries by allowing anyone with a modest amount of capital to write to the blockchain (micro capital and microloans) outside of current banks; and/or 3. Reconsolidate the power from the banks back to the state by requiring state approval on all large transactions. The White Paper was focussed on Information Sharing Agreements, not fintech, but the logic seems extensible. This set of tools can be democratizing but is not necessarily so. Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN> Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca On 29 November 2016 at 13:49, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
It would be interesting to see what the diagram on page 2 that you did with Mary would look like if we assume a bank as host of PII and a bank regulator as "blockchain" to which the bank writes hashes of its collection of accounts. With perhaps bank regulators hashing to two places: i) a national registry and ii) an international banking authority.
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:30 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
Very similar, in some respects, to the diagram Mary Hodder and I worked on a couple of IIW's ago, and which I used in a more tailored fashion for my white paper on GDPR and Privacy by Design for JLINC Labs: http://www.jlinclabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/ JLINC_WP_GDPRandPB_20161022.pdf
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 <(647)%20669-4749> eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
On 29 November 2016 at 12:07, James Hazard <james.g.hazard@gmail.com> wrote:
This image is great! I'll find a place for it along with this one by Thomas - http://www.commonaccord.org/index.php?action=doc&file=S/Ab out/Conference/Flyer/0.md#Diagram
(Separately, I'm asked Norton Rose for a copy of their report on enforceability of smart contracts, and permission to circulate on the mailing list.)
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Wunderlich <john@wunderlich.ca> wrote:
[image: Inline images 1]
Sincerely, John Wunderlich @PrivacyCDN <https://twitter.com/PrivacyCDN>
Call: +1 (647) 669-4749 eMail: john@wunderlich.ca
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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participants (5)
-
James Hazard -
John Moehrke -
John Wunderlich -
Susan Joseph -
Thorsten H. Niebuhr [WedaCon GmbH]