Given this statement is in the code of conduct - I will treat fairly all persons and not engage in acts of discrimination based on race, religion, gender, disability, age, citizenship, national origin, veteran status, sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression." Are we as an organization going to be offering rigorous training around how to address implicit bias? And understanding the dynamics and issues that are in play when dealing with marginalized communities. Relative to communities of color and people who are white Americans this is sometimes called White Awareness Training or Anti-Racism Training. There is similar work to be done around sexism (men relative to women) and relative to gender identity issues. Along with training to be aware of religion etc. If we do not offer resources to live into the statements we should not be making the statements a requirement of "the profession". On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Scott Shorter wrote:

My apologies for missing the meeting, I had a prior conflict at that time. The wiki is up to date with the status of the code of conduct project https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/idpro/Codes+of+Conduct+Spac.... Please let me know if any questions or comments came up.

Is 11am the new meeting time going forward?

Regards,

Scott

*From: * on behalf of Megan Cannon *Date: *Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 9:07 AM *To: *"dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org" *Subject: *[DG-IDPro] Reminder: ID Pro Discussion Group meeting today at 11am ET

Greetings,

Please join the Kantara ID Pro Discussion Group call today at 11:00am ET.

The call details are below for your reference.

All the best,

Megan

*Agenda:*

- Project teams report out

- Body of Knowledge / Taxonomy - Thorsten Niebuhr - Codes of Conduct / Practice - Scott Shorter - Membership Models / Services - Giles Watkins - Governance / Structure - Sarah Squire

- Participation level discussion

* ------------------------------ *

*Wednesday, December 7*

*11:00am Eastern Standard Time (UTC -5h)*

*Please join my meeting from your computer, tablet or smartphone. https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/747903453 https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/747903453 *

*You can also dial in using your phone. *United States +1 (646) 749-3117 <(646)%20749-3117>

Access Code: 747-903-453

*More phone numbers *Australia +61 2 8355 1039 <+61%202%208355%201039> Austria +43 7 2088 1033 Belgium +32 (0) 28 93 7001 Canada +1 (647) 497-9379 <(647)%20497-9379> Denmark +45 69 91 89 33 <+45%2069%2091%2089%2033> Finland +358 (0) 923 17 0555 France +33 (0) 170 950 585 Germany +49 (0) 692 5736 7301 <+49%2069%20257367301> Ireland +353 (0) 19 030 050 Italy +39 0 693 38 75 50 Netherlands +31 (0) 208 080 208 New Zealand +64 9 925 0481 <+64%209-925%200481> Norway +47 21 54 82 21 <+47%2021%2054%2082%2021> Spain +34 911 82 9890 <+34%20911%2082%2098%2090> Sweden +46 (0) 853 527 817 Switzerland +41 (0) 435 0167 65 United Kingdom +44 (0) 330 221 0099 <+44%20330%20221%200099>

First GoToMeeting? Try a test session: http://help.citrix.com/getready http://help.citrix.com/getready

_______________________________________________ DG-IDPro mailing list DG-IDPro@kantarainitiative.org http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idpro

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Scott Shorter wrote:

Hi Kaliya,

A fair question - identity and bias are certainly inter-related issues. Who do you envision would be the recipient of such training?

The ID professionals you are suggesting follow this code of conduct.

At a minimum, I would imagine that the code of conduct should provoke some evaluation of actual and potential practices against the objectives, which would be a good start.

Most ID Professionals that I have met do not have any good knowledge or training around these issues. When I have brought issues up around these topics in professional settings they make people VERY VERY uncomfortable.

Thanks for the input, Scott

*From: *Kaliya Identity Woman *Date: *Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 12:19 PM *To: *Scott Shorter *Cc: *Megan Cannon , " dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org" *Subject: *Re: [DG-IDPro] Reminder: ID Pro Discussion Group meeting today at 11am ET

Given this statement is in the code of conduct

· I will treat fairly all persons and not engage in acts of discrimination based on race, religion, gender, disability, age, citizenship, national origin, veteran status, sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression."

Are we as an organization going to be offering rigorous training around how to address implicit bias? And understanding the dynamics and issues that are in play when dealing with marginalized communities. Relative to communities of color and people who are white Americans this is sometimes called White Awareness Training or Anti-Racism Training.

There is similar work to be done around sexism (men relative to women) and relative to gender identity issues.

Along with training to be aware of religion etc.

If we do not offer resources to live into the statements we should not be making the statements a requirement of "the profession".

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Scott Shorter wrote:

My apologies for missing the meeting, I had a prior conflict at that time. The wiki is up to date with the status of the code of conduct project https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/idpro/Codes+of+Conduct+Spac.... Please let me know if any questions or comments came up.

Is 11am the new meeting time going forward?

Regards,

Scott

*From: * on behalf of Megan Cannon *Date: *Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 9:07 AM *To: *"dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org" *Subject: *[DG-IDPro] Reminder: ID Pro Discussion Group meeting today at 11am ET

Greetings,

Please join the Kantara ID Pro Discussion Group call today at 11:00am ET.

The call details are below for your reference.

All the best,

Megan

*Agenda:*

- Project teams report out

- Body of Knowledge / Taxonomy - Thorsten Niebuhr - Codes of Conduct / Practice - Scott Shorter - Membership Models / Services - Giles Watkins - Governance / Structure - Sarah Squire

- Participation level discussion

* ------------------------------ *

*Wednesday, December 7*

*11:00am Eastern Standard Time (UTC -5h)*

*Please join my meeting from your computer, tablet or smartphone. https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/747903453 https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/747903453 *

*You can also dial in using your phone. *United States +1 (646) 749-3117 <(646)%20749-3117>

Access Code: 747-903-453

*More phone numbers *Australia +61 2 8355 1039 <+61%202%208355%201039> Austria +43 7 2088 1033 Belgium +32 (0) 28 93 7001 Canada +1 (647) 497-9379 <(647)%20497-9379> Denmark +45 69 91 89 33 <+45%2069%2091%2089%2033> Finland +358 (0) 923 17 0555 France +33 (0) 170 950 585 Germany +49 (0) 692 5736 7301 <+49%2069%20257367301> Ireland +353 (0) 19 030 050 Italy +39 0 693 38 75 50 Netherlands +31 (0) 208 080 208 New Zealand +64 9 925 0481 <+64%209-925%200481> Norway +47 21 54 82 21 <+47%2021%2054%2082%2021> Spain +34 911 82 9890 <+34%20911%2082%2098%2090> Sweden +46 (0) 853 527 817 Switzerland +41 (0) 435 0167 65 United Kingdom +44 (0) 330 221 0099 <+44%20330%20221%200099>

First GoToMeeting? Try a test session: http://help.citrix.com/getready http://help.citrix.com/getready

_______________________________________________ DG-IDPro mailing list DG-IDPro@kantarainitiative.org http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idpro

Greetings David and congratulations for the award and welcome to the conversation. I would say that gathering member compliance metrics about bias or any other topic is NOT what the code of conduct should be used for, but I suppose it depends how active the ID Pro organization is envisioned to be in the enforcement of the code of conduct. Applying the same rubric across the board, one might ask if the ID Pro organization will be responsible for actively monitoring relationships among members for conflict of interest violations. Let’s hear some opinions on that. Thoughts? Thanks! - Scott On 12/7/16, 1:59 PM, "David Chadwick" wrote: I was responsible for our department being awarded an Athena Swan Bronze Award, whose original objective was to increase the number of women in science and computing (see http://www.ecu.ac.uk/). I can agree with Kaliya that getting people to admit that bias exists is quite hard, getting them to see that unconscious bias exists is even harder, and getting them to change the processes and procedures so that they are bias free is harder still. We started on this path as a department three years ago and still have several more years ahead of us before we can assert that we are bias free. Writing anti-discrimination clauses into our ID-PRO code of conduct is a very noble aim, but it takes real effort and resources to make it happen. This implies that some of the annual membership fee should be directed towards this end, and that there are effective ways of measuring the amount of bias/non-bias in the members. Without metrics the whole process becomes a simple paper ticking exercise, which is somewhat pointless. regards David On 07/12/2016 18:18, Kaliya Identity Woman wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Scott Shorter mailto:scott.shorter@kuma.pro> wrote: > > Hi Kaliya,____ > > __ __ > > A fair question - identity and bias are certainly inter-related > issues. Who do you envision would be the recipient of such training? > > > The ID professionals you are suggesting follow this code of conduct. > > > > ____ > > > At a minimum, I would imagine that the code of conduct should > provoke some evaluation of actual and potential practices against > the objectives, which would be a good start. > > > Most ID Professionals that I have met do not have any good knowledge or > training around these issues. > > When I have brought issues up around these topics in professional > settings they make people VERY VERY uncomfortable. > > > > ____ > > __ __ > > Thanks for the input, > Scott____ > > __ __ > > *From: *Kaliya Identity Woman mailto:kaliya@identitywoman.net> > *Date: *Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 12:19 PM > *To: *Scott Shorter mailto:scott.shorter@kuma.pro> > *Cc: *Megan Cannon mailto:megan@kantarainitiative.org>, > "dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org > mailto:dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org" > mailto:dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org> > *Subject: *Re: [DG-IDPro] Reminder: ID Pro Discussion Group meeting > today at 11am ET____ > > __ __ > > Given this statement is in the code of conduct ____ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > __· __I will treat fairly all persons and not engage in acts > of discrimination based on race, religion, gender, disability, age, > citizenship, national origin, veteran status, sexual orientation, > gender identity, or gender expression."____ > > __ __ > > Are we as an organization going to be offering rigorous training > around how to address implicit bias? And understanding the dynamics > and issues that are in play when dealing with marginalized > communities. Relative to communities of color and people who are > white Americans this is sometimes called White Awareness Training or > Anti-Racism Training.____ > > __ __ > > There is similar work to be done around sexism (men relative to > women) and relative to gender identity issues. ____ > > __ __ > > Along with training to be aware of religion etc. ____ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > If we do not offer resources to live into the statements we should > not be making the statements a requirement of "the profession". ____ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Scott Shorter > mailto:scott.shorter@kuma.pro> wrote:____ > > My apologies for missing the meeting, I had a prior conflict at > that time. The wiki is up to date with the status of the code > of conduct project > https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/idpro/Codes+of+Conduct+Spac.... > Please let me know if any questions or comments came up.____ > > ____ > > Is 11am the new meeting time going forward? ____ > > ____ > > Regards,____ > > Scott____ > > ____ > > *From: * mailto:dg-idpro-bounces@kantarainitiative.org> on behalf of > Megan Cannon mailto:megan@kantarainitiative.org> > *Date: *Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 9:07 AM > *To: *"dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org > mailto:dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org" > mailto:dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org> > *Subject: *[DG-IDPro] Reminder: ID Pro Discussion Group meeting > today at 11am ET____ > > ____ > > Greetings,____ > > ____ > > Please join the Kantara ID Pro Discussion Group call today at > 11:00am ET.____ > > ____ > > The call details are below for your reference.____ > > ____ > > All the best,____ > > Megan____ > > ____ > > *Agenda:*____ > > * Project teams report out ____ > > o Body of Knowledge / Taxonomy - Thorsten Niebuhr____ > o Codes of Conduct / Practice - Scott Shorter____ > o Membership Models / Services - Giles Watkins____ > o Governance / Structure - Sarah Squire____ > > * Participation level discussion____ > > ____ > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > * > > ____ > > *Wednesday, December 7*____ > > *11:00am Eastern Standard Time (UTC -5h)*____ > > ____ > > *Please join my meeting from your computer, tablet or smartphone. > https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/747903453 > https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/747903453 > * > *You can also dial in using your phone. > *United States +1 (646) 749-3117 tel:(646)%20749-3117 > > Access Code: 747-903-453 > > *More phone numbers > *Australia +61 2 8355 1039 tel:+61%202%208355%201039 > Austria +43 7 2088 1033 > Belgium +32 (0) 28 93 7001 > Canada +1 (647) 497-9379 tel:(647)%20497-9379 > Denmark +45 69 91 89 33 tel:+45%2069%2091%2089%2033 > Finland +358 (0) 923 17 0555 > France +33 (0) 170 950 585 > Germany +49 (0) 692 5736 7301 tel:+49%2069%20257367301 > Ireland +353 (0) 19 030 050 > Italy +39 0 693 38 75 50 > Netherlands +31 (0) 208 080 208 > New Zealand +64 9 925 0481 tel:+64%209-925%200481 > Norway +47 21 54 82 21 tel:+47%2021%2054%2082%2021 > Spain +34 911 82 9890 tel:+34%20911%2082%2098%2090 > Sweden +46 (0) 853 527 817 > Switzerland +41 (0) 435 0167 65 > United Kingdom +44 (0) 330 221 0099 tel:+44%20330%20221%200099 > > First GoToMeeting? Try a test > session: http://help.citrix.com/getready > http://help.citrix.com/getready____ > > > _______________________________________________ > DG-IDPro mailing list > DG-IDPro@kantarainitiative.org > mailto:DG-IDPro@kantarainitiative.org > http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idpro > http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idpro____ > > __ __ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > DG-IDPro mailing list > DG-IDPro@kantarainitiative.org > http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idpro >

On 07/12/2016 19:47, Kaliya Identity Woman wrote:

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 11:20 AM, Scott Shorter mailto:scott.shorter@kuma.pro> wrote:

Greetings David and congratulations for the award and welcome to the conversation.

I would say that gathering member compliance metrics about bias

Sigh - this is where different frames get in the way.

How do you know if you have bias or not? you have to look at it and measure it.

It isn't about "compliance" in theway that one passes an audit.

It is about how do we be better people and work towards the VERY LOFTY ideal seth forth in the conde of concudct around these isseus.

If one is from the dominant cutlure in North American society one can not hope to actually "be" in alignement with teh aspiration of the code of conduct without doing some inner (reflective) and outer (practice) work around the issues. And it isn't comfortable either.

or any other topic is NOT what the code of conduct should be used for, but I suppose it depends how active the ID Pro organization is envisioned to be in the enforcement of the code of conduct.

Before we get to talking about enforcement - can we talk about skill building and trying to actually have 1) awareness 2) some skills 3) good skills

I think what David was suggesting is people actually doing some kind of assessment that in aggreagate and gives metrics - not that you "pass or fail" on these things it is are you improving and are we as a communtiy improving.

Correct. What Athena Swan is about is firstly getting to know and understand your own organisation, how it works, and how it compares to the norm (in the UK university case this is computed from the annual statistics that are routinely gathered from all universities). This means that you measure yourself in terms of female/male ratios, recruitment statistics, graduation statistics, promotion statistics, maternity/paternity leave etc. Then you start to look at ways you can improve. How do you word your job adverts? How do you attract students? How does your promotion procedure work? How do you market yourself to school kids etc. Then you measure your statistics again one and two years later to see if they are improving. And you analyse what worked and what did not work. Then you might suggest other changes to processes and procedures, and again measure the effect that these have had. It is a long arduous process, but one hopes that in the end you have eliminated all biases in the system and can show, through improved statistics, that you are a non-discriminatory organisation. Annual staff surveys measure what your staff think about your procedures and culture, and this is also a way of measuring any improvements you might have made. I am not sure how this translates into IDPRO membership. To obtain Athena Swan accreditation took 10% of my time for one year, plus the time of other staff who implemented various changes, attended meetings etc. So it is a costly process. Consequently I am not advocating this for IDPRO. It is perhaps better left to an organisation that specialises in anti-discrimination issues like Athena Swan. regards David

Applying the same rubric across the board, one might ask if the ID Pro organization will be responsible for actively monitoring relationships among members for conflict of interest violations. Let’s hear some opinions on that.

Thoughts? Thanks! - Scott

On 12/7/16, 1:59 PM, "David Chadwick" mailto:D.W.Chadwick@kent.ac.uk> wrote:

I was responsible for our department being awarded an Athena Swan Bronze Award, whose original objective was to increase the number of women in science and computing (see http://www.ecu.ac.uk/). I can agree with Kaliya that getting people to admit that bias exists is quite hard, getting them to see that unconscious bias exists is even harder, and getting them to change the processes and procedures so that they are bias free is harder still. We started on this path as a department three years ago and still have several more years ahead of us before we can assert that we are bias free. Writing anti-discrimination clauses into our ID-PRO code of conduct is a very noble aim, but it takes real effort and resources to make it happen. This implies that some of the annual membership fee should be directed towards this end, and that there are effective ways of measuring the amount of bias/non-bias in the members. Without metrics the whole process becomes a simple paper ticking exercise, which is somewhat pointless.

regards

David

On 07/12/2016 18:18, Kaliya Identity Woman wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Scott Shorter mailto:scott.shorter@kuma.pro > mailto:scott.shorter@kuma.pro>> wrote: > > Hi Kaliya,____ > > __ __ > > A fair question - identity and bias are certainly inter-related > issues. Who do you envision would be the recipient of such training? > > > The ID professionals you are suggesting follow this code of conduct. > > > > ____ > > > At a minimum, I would imagine that the code of conduct should > provoke some evaluation of actual and potential practices against > the objectives, which would be a good start. > > > Most ID Professionals that I have met do not have any good knowledge or > training around these issues. > > When I have brought issues up around these topics in professional > settings they make people VERY VERY uncomfortable. > > > > ____ > > __ __ > > Thanks for the input, > Scott____ > > __ __ > > *From: *Kaliya Identity Woman mailto:kaliya@identitywoman.net > mailto:kaliya@identitywoman.net>> > *Date: *Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 12:19 PM > *To: *Scott Shorter mailto:scott.shorter@kuma.pro > mailto:scott.shorter@kuma.pro>> > *Cc: *Megan Cannon mailto:megan@kantarainitiative.org > mailto:megan@kantarainitiative.org>>, > "dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org mailto:dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org > mailto:dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org>" > mailto:dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org mailto:dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org>> > *Subject: *Re: [DG-IDPro] Reminder: ID Pro Discussion Group meeting > today at 11am ET____ > > __ __ > > Given this statement is in the code of conduct ____ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > __· __I will treat fairly all persons and not engage in acts > of discrimination based on race, religion, gender, disability, age, > citizenship, national origin, veteran status, sexual orientation, > gender identity, or gender expression."____ > > __ __ > > Are we as an organization going to be offering rigorous training > around how to address implicit bias? And understanding the dynamics > and issues that are in play when dealing with marginalized > communities. Relative to communities of color and people who are > white Americans this is sometimes called White Awareness Training or > Anti-Racism Training.____ > > __ __ > > There is similar work to be done around sexism (men relative to > women) and relative to gender identity issues. ____ > > __ __ > > Along with training to be aware of religion etc. ____ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > If we do not offer resources to live into the statements we should > not be making the statements a requirement of "the profession". ____ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Scott Shorter > mailto:scott.shorter@kuma.pro mailto:scott.shorter@kuma.pro>> wrote:____ > > My apologies for missing the meeting, I had a prior conflict at > that time. The wiki is up to date with the status of the code > of conduct project > <https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/idpro/Codes+of+Conduct+Spac... https://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/idpro/Codes+of+Conduct+Spac...>. > Please let me know if any questions or comments came up.____ > > ____ > > Is 11am the new meeting time going forward? ____ > > ____ > > Regards,____ > > Scott____ > > ____ > > *From: *mailto:dg-idpro-bounces@kantarainitiative.org > mailto:dg-idpro-bounces@kantarainitiative.org>> on behalf of > Megan Cannon mailto:megan@kantarainitiative.org > mailto:megan@kantarainitiative.org>> > *Date: *Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 9:07 AM > *To: *"dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org mailto:dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org > mailto:dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org>" > mailto:dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org > mailto:dg-idpro@kantarainitiative.org>> > *Subject: *[DG-IDPro] Reminder: ID Pro Discussion Group meeting > today at 11am ET____ > > ____ > > Greetings,____ > > ____ > > Please join the Kantara ID Pro Discussion Group call today at > 11:00am ET.____ > > ____ > > The call details are below for your reference.____ > > ____ > > All the best,____ > > Megan____ > > ____ > > *Agenda:*____ > > * Project teams report out ____ > > o Body of Knowledge / Taxonomy - Thorsten Niebuhr____ > o Codes of Conduct / Practice - Scott Shorter____ > o Membership Models / Services - Giles Watkins____ > o Governance / Structure - Sarah Squire____ > > * Participation level discussion____ > > ____ > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > * > > ____ > > *Wednesday, December 7*____ > > *11:00am Eastern Standard Time (UTC -5h)*____ > > ____ > > *Please join my meeting from your computer, tablet or smartphone. > https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/747903453 https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/747903453 > <https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/747903453 https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/747903453> > * > *You can also dial in using your phone. > *United States +1 (646) 749-3117 tel:%2B1%20%28646%29%20749-3117 tel:(646)%20749-3117 > > Access Code: 747-903-453 > > *More phone numbers > *Australia +61 2 8355 1039 tel:%2B61%202%208355%201039 tel:+61%202%208355%201039 > Austria +43 7 2088 1033 tel:%2B43%207%202088%201033 > Belgium +32 (0) 28 93 7001 tel:%2B32%20%280%29%2028%2093%207001 > Canada +1 (647) 497-9379 tel:%2B1%20%28647%29%20497-9379 tel:(647)%20497-9379 > Denmark +45 69 91 89 33 tel:+45%2069%2091%2089%2033 > Finland +358 (0) 923 17 0555 > France +33 (0) 170 950 585 > Germany +49 (0) 692 5736 7301 tel:+49%2069%20257367301 > Ireland +353 (0) 19 030 050 > Italy +39 0 693 38 75 50 > Netherlands +31 (0) 208 080 208 > New Zealand +64 9 925 0481 tel:+64%209-925%200481 > Norway +47 21 54 82 21 tel:+47%2021%2054%2082%2021 > Spain +34 911 82 9890 tel:+34%20911%2082%2098%2090 > Sweden +46 (0) 853 527 817 > Switzerland +41 (0) 435 0167 65 > United Kingdom +44 (0) 330 221 0099 tel:+44%20330%20221%200099 > > First GoToMeeting? Try a test > session: http://help.citrix.com/getready http://help.citrix.com/getready > <http://help.citrix.com/getready http://help.citrix.com/getready>____ > > > _______________________________________________ > DG-IDPro mailing list > DG-IDPro@kantarainitiative.org mailto:DG-IDPro@kantarainitiative.org > mailto:DG-IDPro@kantarainitiative.org> > http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idpro http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idpro > <http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idpro http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idpro>____ > > __ __ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > DG-IDPro mailing list > DG-IDPro@kantarainitiative.org mailto:DG-IDPro@kantarainitiative.org > http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idpro http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/dg-idpro >