Here is another non-DL use for 18013-5 - Dg-mdl - mailman.kantarainitiative.org

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Here is another non-DL use for 18013-5

Tom Jones

9 Mar 2021 9 Mar '21

1:19 p.m.

I suspect that the non-DL applications will eventually be larger than the DL use cases. https://www.scytales.com/post/digital-certificate-of-vaccination-green-pass-... Be the change you want to see in the world ..tom

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Richard G. WILSHER (＠Zygma)

9 Mar 9 Mar

3:18 p.m.

I could be having an epiphany or I could just be rather dumb … but here goes. The paper you referred us to Tom has all the attributes [general usage] of the mDL but a totally different purpose. Could we / should we therefore take a broader perspective on 18013-5 and rather than focus on the mDL per se (though it is a good subject for thinking around) think more of a Personal Identification Digital Document (PIDD) or potentially (though privacy risks abound) a PIDD ‘Store’, i.e. the common PII with other meta-data specific to a particular use, e.g. mDL, Cert of Vaccination … or of any other worthy attribute? There is nothing about an mDL which is so special, is there? I get the point that as a focus for a specific instantiation it is valuable, but a slant in one’s perspective opens up the basic tool for many parallel purposes, as the referenced paper suggests. Does this make any sense? Richard G. WILSHER Founder & CEO, Zygma Inc. https://kantarainitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/brizy/11604/assets/images/iW=341&iH=341&oX=0&oY=43&cW=341&cH=255/Kantara-Award-Badge-02.png Operating independently since 1993 M: +1 714 797 99 42 E: mailto:RGW@Zygma.biz RGW@Zygma.biz W: http://www.zygma.biz/ www.Zygma.biz From: Dg-mdl [mailto:dg-mdl-bounces@kantarainitiative.org] On Behalf Of Tom Jones Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 16:19 To: mdl Kantara Subject: [Dg-PImDL] Here is another non-DL use for 18013-5 I suspect that the non-DL applications will eventually be larger than the DL use cases. https://www.scytales.com/post/digital-certificate-of-vaccination-green-pass-... Be the change you want to see in the world ..tom

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Tom Jones

3:23 p.m.

did you see my earlier posting on healthcare ID? https://wiki.idesg.org/wiki/index.php/State_Issued_ID_for_Healthcare Be the change you want to see in the world ..tom On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 10:19 AM Richard G. WILSHER (@Zygma) wrote:

I could be having an epiphany or I could just be rather dumb … but here goes.

The paper you referred us to Tom has all the attributes [general usage] of the mDL but a totally different purpose. Could we / should we therefore take a broader perspective on 18013-5 and rather than focus on the mDL *per se* (though it is a good subject for thinking around) think more of a Personal Identification Digital Document (PIDD) or potentially (though privacy risks abound) a PIDD ‘Store’, i.e. the common PII with other meta-data specific to a particular use, e.g. mDL, Cert of Vaccination … or of any other worthy attribute?

There is nothing about an mDL which is so special, is there? I get the point that as a focus for a specific instantiation it is valuable, but a slant in one’s perspective opens up the basic tool for many parallel purposes, as the referenced paper suggests.

Does this make any sense?

*Richard G. WILSHERFounder & CEO, Zygma Inc.** [image: https://kantarainitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/brizy/11604/assets/images/iW=341&iH=341&oX=0&oY=43&cW=341&cH=255/Kantara-Award-Badge-02.png] *

*Operating independently since 1993M: +1 714 797 99 42E:* *RGW@Zygma.biz* *W:* *www.Zygma.biz* http://www.zygma.biz/

*From:* Dg-mdl [mailto:dg-mdl-bounces@kantarainitiative.org] *On Behalf Of *Tom Jones *Sent:* Tuesday, March 9, 2021 16:19 *To:* mdl Kantara *Subject:* [Dg-PImDL] Here is another non-DL use for 18013-5

I suspect that the non-DL applications will eventually be larger than the DL use cases.

https://www.scytales.com/post/digital-certificate-of-vaccination-green-pass-...

Be the change you want to see in the world ..tom

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Jordaan, Loffie

4:08 p.m.

Richard, I think we are already doing that, albeit focused on credentials following the 18013-5 standard. From Section 1.1 of the report (my highlighting): ISO/IEC designed 18013-5 to bring digitally secure driving licenses to mobile devices. Implementers of ISO/IEC 18013-5 will not be limited to public identity issuing authorities, such as motor vehicle administrators. Other entities, public and private, may choose to utilize this standard for issuing mobile identities for specific ecosystem use cases (e.g. national agencies, colleges and universities, private commercial organizations such as retail and healthcare, etc.) Even though such identities (i.e. compliant with the ISO/IEC 18013-5 standard and issued by non-driver's license issuers) may not be able to interoperate within an mDL ecosystem, the security and privacy considerations of these identities are within the scope of this report. Thanks, Loffie Jordaan Business Solutions Architect American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA) ljordaan@aamva.org 703.908.5864 4401 Wilson Blvd, Suite 700 | Arlington, VA 22203 Safe Drivers, Safe Vehicles, Secure Identities, Saving Lives! aamva.org [AAMVA Logo for Email Signature] From: Dg-mdl On Behalf Of Richard G. WILSHER (@Zygma) Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 13:19 To: 'Tom Jones' ; 'mdl Kantara' Subject: Re: [Dg-PImDL] Here is another non-DL use for 18013-5 [External Sender] I could be having an epiphany or I could just be rather dumb ... but here goes. The paper you referred us to Tom has all the attributes [general usage] of the mDL but a totally different purpose. Could we / should we therefore take a broader perspective on 18013-5 and rather than focus on the mDL per se (though it is a good subject for thinking around) think more of a Personal Identification Digital Document (PIDD) or potentially (though privacy risks abound) a PIDD 'Store', i.e. the common PII with other meta-data specific to a particular use, e.g. mDL, Cert of Vaccination ... or of any other worthy attribute? There is nothing about an mDL which is so special, is there? I get the point that as a focus for a specific instantiation it is valuable, but a slant in one's perspective opens up the basic tool for many parallel purposes, as the referenced paper suggests. Does this make any sense? Richard G. WILSHER Founder & CEO, Zygma Inc. [cid:image001.jpg@01D714EC.F3166ED0] [https://kantarainitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/brizy/11604/assets/images/iW=341&iH=341&oX=0&oY=43&cW=341&cH=255/Kantara-Award-Badge-02.png] [cid:image003.jpg@01D714EC.F3166ED0] Operating independently since 1993 M: +1 714 797 99 42 E: RGW@Zygma.bizmailto:RGW@Zygma.biz W: www.Zygma.bizhttps://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zygma.biz%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cljordaan%40aamva.org%7C72e08b450e2a4217beb008d8e327d4a6%7Cc4a5ff7af87c4d21a0d908a2ff3dbdc7%7C1%7C1%7C637509107498895742%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=szpvmpMveT%2BJskmHQkKumw15I1PuoWu0b0GDmI3JiGM%3D&reserved=0 From: Dg-mdl [mailto:dg-mdl-bounces@kantarainitiative.org] On Behalf Of Tom Jones Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 16:19 To: mdl Kantara Subject: [Dg-PImDL] Here is another non-DL use for 18013-5 I suspect that the non-DL applications will eventually be larger than the DL use cases. https://www.scytales.com/post/digital-certificate-of-vaccination-green-pass-...https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scytales.com%2Fpost%2Fdigital-certificate-of-vaccination-green-pass-iso-standardized-ready-available&data=04%7C01%7Cljordaan%40aamva.org%7C72e08b450e2a4217beb008d8e327d4a6%7Cc4a5ff7af87c4d21a0d908a2ff3dbdc7%7C1%7C1%7C637509107498895742%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=oBemgvBkz%2B2XBufX%2BoxW3UYE88QvPhqVKfwBA7tWu30%3D&reserved=0 Be the change you want to see in the world ..tom

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Richard G. WILSHER (＠Zygma)

4:15 p.m.

Thanks Loffie - so that's two votes so far for 'dumb' ;-) I think I'll close the voting early and take more note of what I read! I do find it interesting though that 18013 is so focused on the mDL when it could have a broader purview from the outset. Perhaps too challenging? Richard G. WILSHER Founder & CEO, Zygma Inc. https://kantarainitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/brizy/11604/assets/images/i W=341&iH=341&oX=0&oY=43&cW=341&cH=255/Kantara-Award-Badge-02.png Operating independently since 1993 M: +1 714 797 99 42 E: mailto:RGW@Zygma.biz RGW@Zygma.biz W: http://www.zygma.biz/ www.Zygma.biz From: Jordaan, Loffie [mailto:LJordaan@aamva.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 19:09 To: Richard G. WILSHER (@Zygma); 'Tom Jones'; 'mdl Kantara' Subject: RE: [Dg-PImDL] Here is another non-DL use for 18013-5 Richard, I think we are already doing that, albeit focused on credentials following the 18013-5 standard. From Section 1.1 of the report (my highlighting): ISO/IEC designed 18013-5 to bring digitally secure driving licenses to mobile devices. Implementers of ISO/IEC 18013-5 will not be limited to public identity issuing authorities, such as motor vehicle administrators. Other entities, public and private, may choose to utilize this standard for issuing mobile identities for specific ecosystem use cases (e.g. national agencies, colleges and universities, private commercial organizations such as retail and healthcare, etc.) Even though such identities (i.e. compliant with the ISO/IEC 18013-5 standard and issued by non-driver's license issuers) may not be able to interoperate within an mDL ecosystem, the security and privacy considerations of these identities are within the scope of this report. Thanks, Loffie Jordaan Business Solutions Architect American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA) ljordaan@aamva.org 703.908.5864 4401 Wilson Blvd, Suite 700 | Arlington, VA 22203 Safe Drivers, Safe Vehicles, Secure Identities, Saving Lives! aamva.org AAMVA Logo for Email Signature From: Dg-mdl On Behalf Of Richard G. WILSHER (@Zygma) Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 13:19 To: 'Tom Jones' ; 'mdl Kantara' Subject: Re: [Dg-PImDL] Here is another non-DL use for 18013-5 [External Sender] I could be having an epiphany or I could just be rather dumb . but here goes. The paper you referred us to Tom has all the attributes [general usage] of the mDL but a totally different purpose. Could we / should we therefore take a broader perspective on 18013-5 and rather than focus on the mDL per se (though it is a good subject for thinking around) think more of a Personal Identification Digital Document (PIDD) or potentially (though privacy risks abound) a PIDD 'Store', i.e. the common PII with other meta-data specific to a particular use, e.g. mDL, Cert of Vaccination . or of any other worthy attribute? There is nothing about an mDL which is so special, is there? I get the point that as a focus for a specific instantiation it is valuable, but a slant in one's perspective opens up the basic tool for many parallel purposes, as the referenced paper suggests. Does this make any sense? Richard G. WILSHER Founder & CEO, Zygma Inc. https://kantarainitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/brizy/11604/assets/images/i W=341&iH=341&oX=0&oY=43&cW=341&cH=255/Kantara-Award-Badge-02.png Operating independently since 1993 M: +1 714 797 99 42 E: mailto:RGW@Zygma.biz RGW@Zygma.biz W: <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zygma. biz%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cljordaan%40aamva.org%7C72e08b450e2a4217beb008d8e327d4a 6%7Cc4a5ff7af87c4d21a0d908a2ff3dbdc7%7C1%7C1%7C637509107498895742%7CUnknown% 7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn 0%3D%7C1000&sdata=szpvmpMveT%2BJskmHQkKumw15I1PuoWu0b0GDmI3JiGM%3D&reserved= 0> www.Zygma.biz From: Dg-mdl [mailto:dg-mdl-bounces@kantarainitiative.org] On Behalf Of Tom Jones Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 16:19 To: mdl Kantara Subject: [Dg-PImDL] Here is another non-DL use for 18013-5 I suspect that the non-DL applications will eventually be larger than the DL use cases. https://www.scytales.com/post/digital-certificate-of-vaccination-green-pass- iso-standardized-ready-available <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scyta les.com%2Fpost%2Fdigital-certificate-of-vaccination-green-pass-iso-standardi zed-ready-available&data=04%7C01%7Cljordaan%40aamva.org%7C72e08b450e2a4217be b008d8e327d4a6%7Cc4a5ff7af87c4d21a0d908a2ff3dbdc7%7C1%7C1%7C6375091074988957 42%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=oBemgvBkz%2B2XBufX%2BoxW3UYE88QvPhqVKfwBA7tWu 30%3D&reserved=0> Be the change you want to see in the world ..tom

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Marc L. Aronson

4:14 p.m.

Richard: From the only person in this committee who is not professionally in the identity space, I agree with this: should we therefore take a broader perspective In my opinion, in real life, the mDL will be used by the average citizen as an identity document potentially many times a year, and perhaps as true evidence of driving permission by the issuing body (the state in the USA) the one time a year, or hopefully less often, when they come in contact with a law enforcement officer who wants to know why you are doing 98 MPH in your Datsun 240Z on I90 in New York state (I’ll never forget it, so much fun). Off the soap box now. Marc A. Marc L. Aronson President & CEO Pennsylvania Association of Notaries p: 800-944-8790 x113 | f: 800-707-7075 maronson@notary.org | www.notary.org One Gateway Center, Suite 401 420 Fort Duquesne Blvd., Pittsburgh, PA 15222 [https://www.notary.org/images/email/linkedin.png]https://www.linkedin.com/company/pennsylvania-association-of-notaries [https://www.notary.org/images/email/facebook.png] https://www.facebook.com/PaAssocNotaries [https://www.notary.org/images/email/twitter.png] https://twitter.com/PaAssocNotaries [https://www.notary.org/images/email/instagram.png] https://www.instagram.com/paassocnotaries/ [https://www.notary.org/images/email/youtube.png] https://www.notary.org/youtube [https://www.notary.org/images/email/rss.png] https://feeds.feedburner.com/pan_news This message (including any attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. If you have received it by mistake please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message from your system. Any unauthorized use or dissemination of this message in whole or in part is strictly prohibited. Please note that e-mails are susceptible to change. The Pennsylvania Association of Notaries (PAN) shall not be liable for the improper or incomplete transmission of the information contained in this communication nor for any delay in its receipt or damage to your system. PAN does not guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that this communication is free of viruses, interceptions or interference. From: Dg-mdl On Behalf Of Richard G. WILSHER (@Zygma) Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 1:19 PM To: 'Tom Jones' ; 'mdl Kantara' Subject: Re: [Dg-PImDL] Here is another non-DL use for 18013-5 I could be having an epiphany or I could just be rather dumb … but here goes. The paper you referred us to Tom has all the attributes [general usage] of the mDL but a totally different purpose. Could we / should we therefore take a broader perspective on 18013-5 and rather than focus on the mDL per se (though it is a good subject for thinking around) think more of a Personal Identification Digital Document (PIDD) or potentially (though privacy risks abound) a PIDD ‘Store’, i.e. the common PII with other meta-data specific to a particular use, e.g. mDL, Cert of Vaccination … or of any other worthy attribute? There is nothing about an mDL which is so special, is there? I get the point that as a focus for a specific instantiation it is valuable, but a slant in one’s perspective opens up the basic tool for many parallel purposes, as the referenced paper suggests. Does this make any sense? Richard G. WILSHER Founder & CEO, Zygma Inc. [cid:image001.jpg@01D714EE.8EE1E5A0] [cid:image002.png@01D714EE.8EE1E5A0] [cid:image003.jpg@01D714EE.8EE1E5A0] Operating independently since 1993 M: +1 714 797 99 42 E: RGW@Zygma.bizmailto:RGW@Zygma.biz W: www.Zygma.bizhttp://www.zygma.biz/ From: Dg-mdl [mailto:dg-mdl-bounces@kantarainitiative.org] On Behalf Of Tom Jones Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 16:19 To: mdl Kantara Subject: [Dg-PImDL] Here is another non-DL use for 18013-5 I suspect that the non-DL applications will eventually be larger than the DL use cases. https://www.scytales.com/post/digital-certificate-of-vaccination-green-pass-... Be the change you want to see in the world ..tom

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Jordaan, Loffie
Marc L. Aronson
Richard G. WILSHER (＠Zygma)
Tom Jones