August 2024 - WG-RIUP - mailman.kantarainitiative.org

DIF backs ‘Personhood Credentials’ to restore privacy to the net | Biometric Update
by Noreen Whysel 23 Aug '24

23 Aug '24

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NIST 800-64-4
by Tom Jones 22 Aug '24

22 Aug '24

It's a lot to ask for a review from all. So what I did was to highlight every place that I thought mattered to the RIUP team. Highlighted in orange. Risk impact is a big addition - which I think is good. The focus is to do no harm. What I found to be missing is an affirmative action plan to see whether the introduction helped the disadvantaged improve their access to services. Peace ..tom jones

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Re: Virtual Seminar on Consent tomorrow 8 AM Eastern
by Salvatore D'Agostino 21 Aug '24

21 Aug '24

Here is the login information, it was ok'd to be forwarded to interested parties. * Date and Time: 22 August 2024; 14.00 - 15.00 (CEST) * Link: https://weizenbaum-institut-de-wi.zoom-x.de/j/61829228111?pwd=SqRpMHLIODlsI… * Password: GenAI24 Info: This meeting uses the Zoom Account of the Weizenbaum Institute. Please refer to https://www.weizenbaum-institut.de/en/privacy-notice/privacy-notice-zoom/ for information regarding your privacy. ________________________________ From: Salvatore D'Agostino Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2024 2:41 PM To: wg-ancr(a)kantarainitiative.org <wg-ancr(a)kantarainitiative.org> Subject: Virtual Seminar on Consent tomorrow 8 AM Easter Events 2024 & Upcoming – Plamadiso (weizenbaum-institut.de)<https://plamadiso.weizenbaum-institut.de/events/> Shayne Longpre Consent in Crisis: The Rapid Decline of the AI Data Commons

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Here is new draft of 63-4, let's comment on inclusion
by Tom Jones 21 Aug '24

21 Aug '24

https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2024/08/nist-releases-second-public-d… thx ..Tom (mobile)

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Fwd: H2X Human to Ever... - Here is a question I was wondering la...
by Tom Jones 20 Aug '24

20 Aug '24

hard to respond in the context of a google doc - some thoughts/answers from me & ai 1. Nearly all smartphones allow a second number - you need to get a sim card (which might be a V-SIM) 2. Delegates and second users are separate issues. - Delegates was what the discussion was about. 3. The phone biometric access is bound to one human - if that is the de facto personal ID only one is allowed. 4. Multiple User Accounts: Some Android phones allow you to create multiple user accounts, similar to a computer. Each user has their own apps, settings, and data. How to do it: Go to Settings > System > Multiple users (this path might vary slightly depending on your phone model). From there, you can add a new user. 5. Guest Mode: If you just need to temporarily share your phone, you can use Guest Mode. This provides a clean, temporary environment for the other person. How to do it: Swipe down from the top of the screen to open the Quick Settings panel, tap on your user icon, and select Add guest. 6. Family Sharing: On iPhones, you can use Family Sharing to share apps, music, and other content with family members. However, this doesn’t create separate user accounts on the phone itself. How to do it: Go to Settings > [your name] > Family Sharing and follow the instructions to add family members. 7. App-Specific Sharing: For specific apps like messaging or social media, you can often add multiple accounts within the app itself. How to do it: Open the app, go to its settings, and look for an option to add another account. Unclear if we want to be creating a survival guide for the technology perplexed? or just outlining the problems. Be the change you want to see in the world ..tom ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Noreen Whysel (Google Docs) <comments-noreply(a)docs.google.com> Date: Tue, Aug 20, 2024 at 11:51 AM Subject: H2X Human to Ever... - Here is a question I was wondering la... To: <ThomasClinganJones(a)gmail.com> Noreen Whysel added a comment to the following document H2X Human to Everything.docx <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_dmZedjyJz0vCRaCupm2MD-yIzPDP3dk/edit?d…> 1 comment Wallets Noreen Whysel • 11:46 AM, Aug 20 (PDT)New Here is a question I was wondering lately. When my husband had COVID he was stuck in the bedroom, far from his desktop computer, he ended up creating a separate user identity on my laptop. Why can't we do something like this for mobile devices? Or can we and the functionality is buried? For that matter, why can't I set up a single phone to have more than one phone number? Remember when answering machines started allowing you to set your land line to have separate mailboxes for each family member? Seems like the technology has been around a long time. And if families find it less cost prohibitive to get their kids phones instead of computers it would mean they would not have the ability to set up separate accounts on a single device. Open <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_dmZedjyJz0vCRaCupm2MD-yIzPDP3dk/edit?d…> Google LLC, 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA You have received this email because you are subscribed to all discussions on H2X Human to Everything.docx <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_dmZedjyJz0vCRaCupm2MD-yIzPDP3dk/edit?d…>. Change what Google sends you <https://docs.google.com/document/u/109794657323597753486/docos/notify?ouid=…>. You cannot reply to this email. View H2X Human to Everything.docx <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_dmZedjyJz0vCRaCupm2MD-yIzPDP3dk/edit?d…> to reply.

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RIUP WG meeting tomorrow, Aug 20th, at 1 PM EDT
by jim kragh 19 Aug '24

19 Aug '24

*ATTENTION WE HAVE A N NEW Join Zoom Meeting link:https://us06web.zoom.us/j/87605872193?pwd=HQI7AJKhLvpgtUxKyOYANVUKzsZW3U.1 <https://us06web.zoom.us/j/87605872193?pwd=HQI7AJKhLvpgtUxKyOYANVUKzsZW3U.1>Meeting ID: 876 0587 2193Passcode: 157149 * One tap mobile +13052241968,,87605872193#,,,,*157149# US +13092053325,,87605872193#,,,,*157149# US Dial by your location • +1 305 224 1968 US • +1 309 205 3325 US • +1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago) • +1 646 558 8656 US (New York) • +1 646 931 3860 US • +1 301 715 8592 US (Washington DC) • +1 669 444 9171 US • +1 689 278 1000 US • +1 719 359 4580 US • +1 720 707 2699 US (Denver) • +1 253 205 0468 US • +1 253 215 8782 US (Tacoma) • +1 346 248 7799 US (Houston) • +1 360 209 5623 US • +1 386 347 5053 US • +1 507 473 4847 US • +1 564 217 2000 US Good evening and hope all are having a good summer. At the closing of our last WG meeting Noreen shared an encounter her folks had in trying to check on a medication for her Dad. With her permission, I wanted to see if our WG could come up with a solution or a work around this encounter. Are there other types of encounters we can document? Please look at the comments Tom shared in responding to Noreens "My parents were visiting with us last week and, as I believe you all know now, we all got COVID. We ran into trouble with ordering medication for my dad who is 79, early Alzheimer’s, but still in control of his own healthcare. My mom wanted to check on the Rx order at Walgreens to see if the meds were filled and reduce the number of times she needed to run to the store. But she was not able to get my dad’s consent to access his order because he needed his own account. But he doesn’t have a working email anymore. Then she wanted to check MyChart to see if his new diabetes medicine was ordered, but she couldn’t access his record. Same reason. So she’s back to waiting on hold forever because she had to call all the providers directly." Noreen further commended: At some point, and given GenZ’s preference for social media over email, I wonder how soon email will no longer be a requirement, or the only requirement. and then Tom shared the following: This is the general use case that was considered for the underserved. If you don't have the technology, you cannot be discriminated against. << our primary principle; so let's find a solution!. *Let's look at the specific problem.* *The notification channel* - Sal should appreciate this. If that is not available, then account recovery is often blocked. It may be that this case is even illegal under ADA, although IANAL Does the group want to accumulate use cases now? Have a restful evening, Jim

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Potential use case
by Noreen Whysel 09 Aug '24

09 Aug '24

My parents were visiting with us last week and, as I believe you all know now, we all got COVID. We ran into trouble with ordering medication for my dad who is 79, early Alzheimer’s, but still in control of his own healthcare. My mom wanted to check on the Rx order at Walgreens to see if the meds were filled and reduce the number of times she needed to run to the store. But she was not able to get my dad’s consent to access his order because he needed his own account. But he doesn’t have a working email anymore. Then she wanted to check MyChart to see if his new diabetes medicine was ordered, but she couldn’t access his record. Same reason. So she’s back to waiting on hold forever because she had to call all the providers directly. At some point, and given GenZ’s preference for social media over email, I wonder how soon email will no longer be a requirement, or the only requirement. Noreen

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RIUP WG 'brief' meeting tomorrow to vote on revisions to the Digital Identifier Inclusion doc.
by jim kragh 07 Aug '24

07 Aug '24

I was informed last week that we have a *new *'Join Zoom Meeting #:and access code: *ATTENTION WE HAVE A N NEW Join Zoom Meeting link:https://us06web.zoom.us/j/87605872193?pwd=HQI7AJKhLvpgtUxKyOYANVUKzsZW3U.1 <https://us06web.zoom.us/j/87605872193?pwd=HQI7AJKhLvpgtUxKyOYANVUKzsZW3U.1>Meeting ID: 876 0587 2193Passcode: 157149 *A list of call numbers was not provided and if a list of # 's are available I will ask Amanda to share such with us tomorrow morning.. Good evening! The revised DII document link is below and Tom, Sal, Noreen and I again reviewed and addressed items that needed attention that were accepted. The attached DII has a few fine tuning thoughts by Noreen and me for your review, comments and or corrections. Please read the document and be prepared to vote or provide a proxy so we can forward the DII to the LC Chair; thank you. The Kantara Leadership Council will be meeting next week, and if tomorrow our WG accepts changes made, we should be able to place the DII in their hands for a final review and acceptance. Once that is accomplished, maybe we can find a funding source and a demonstration partner. Tom shared with us a Homeland Security notice of six 'wallet' projects DHS was funding; surely there are others out there - let's discuss.. Have a nice evening, Jim Kantara RIUP WG Digital Identifier Inclusion Draft 9 5 15 24_ENDORSED.docx <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jaY6yNopxCFC_3sBgeddnmM1psVkLmnS/edit?u…>

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here is a doc describing trust anchors in support of identifiers
by Tom Jones 07 Aug '24

07 Aug '24

https://peppelinux.github.io/federation-wallet/main.html Be the change you want to see in the world ..tom

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Re: RIUP WG 'brief' meeting tomorrow to vote on revisions to the Digital Identifier Inclusion doc.
by Salvatore D'Agostino 06 Aug '24

06 Aug '24

Human (Social) vs. Technical, you need both. Good not to conflate. Good conversation and references. Best, Sal IDmachines 4 Lamson Place Cambridge, MA 02139-2612 +1 617.201.4809 https://IDmachines.com ________________________________ From: Noreen Whysel <nwhysel(a)gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2024 7:54:52 AM To: peace(a)acm.org <peace(a)acm.org> Cc: jim kragh <kragh65(a)gmail.com>; Salvatore D'Agostino <sal(a)idmachines.com>; Simone Alcorn <salcorn(a)easydynamics.com>; Bev Corwin <bevcorwin(a)gmail.com>; Isha Chhatwal <ichhatwa(a)gmail.com>; Thomas Sullivan <tsullivan(a)drfirst.com>; Jeff Brennan <jeff_brennan(a)sbcglobal.net>; Justin Byrd <justin(a)machi-systems.com>; Jorge Flores <jorge(a)entidad.io>; wg-riup <wg-riup(a)kantarainitiative.org>; Kay Chopard Cohen <kay(a)kantarainitiative.org>; Amanda Gay <amanda(a)kantarainitiative.org> Subject: Re: RIUP WG 'brief' meeting tomorrow to vote on revisions to the Digital Identifier Inclusion doc. I like your explanation, Bev. Most people are probably not thinking about data transfer and digital identifiers. They just want care. Noreen On Aug 6, 2024, at 7:41 AM, Noreen Whysel <nwhysel(a)gmail.com> wrote: Sorry, Tom. I posted that before I saw your note about not knowing what a Trust Relationship is. Here is an example of a definition from ONC: <https://www.healthit.gov/isp/understanding-emerging-api-based-standards> Understanding Emerging API-Based Standards<https://www.healthit.gov/isp/understanding-emerging-api-based-standards> healthit.gov<https://www.healthit.gov/isp/understanding-emerging-api-based-standards> <https://www.healthit.gov/isp/understanding-emerging-api-based-standards> <favicon.ico> * Trust Relationship – For interoperability using FHIR to work, a trust relationship must be established between entities (ie an EHR/clinical system and an app). This is currently being accomplished by establishing siloed ecosystems. Without an established trust relationship, access to information is not possible regardless of the standards used. The Trust Relationship that Jim is talking about is one that is established in interpersonal relationships between an individual and a care team or service provider that does not include a digital certificate. For example, “We have met before.” Do we need to define these two aspects of trust relationship separately? Or do we need a new term for the human to human trust relationship? A reason to define them separately would be to acknowledge that in healthcare and other care situations involving an underserved individual where a digital identity is not available there may be a relationship established in human trust between two individuals that is not certified digitally. Example user scenarios: * A med kit is provided on a work site that employs undocumented workers. * A defib kit used (properly) on an unconscious person at a restaurant. In both cases trust is established between worker or dining customer and the establishment that safe conditions are maintained and that in the event of an emergency qualified care is provided. While establishment trusts that the affected person will be able to use/respond to the equipment or prevent an emergency in the first place. Noreen On Aug 6, 2024, at 7:04 AM, Noreen Whysel <nwhysel(a)gmail.com> wrote: That is helpful, Tom. So to be clear, for the purposes of identification, a Trust Relationship is established in a data transaction once a trust anchor is verified? Ie certificate exists and data is transferred, therefore entity A is now in a Trust Relationship with Entity B. Is this true only in a software transaction or could one diagram it in a human trust relationship that Jim is talking about? It could be that you are talking about something on two very different levels. Noreen On Aug 6, 2024, at 1:42 AM, Tom Jones <thomasclinganjones(a)gmail.com> wrote: The problem with that is that the relationship is defined AFTER the transaction completes, whereas the value in the request is prior to to the formation of the trust relationship. The trust Anchor for health interchange is defined by onc/tefca which cannot be altered or approved by the patient. BTW, that piece was NOT added while I was editing the doc so I cannot justify it. thx ..Tom (mobile) On Mon, Aug 5, 2024, 7:20 PM Noreen Whysel <nwhysel(a)gmail.com<mailto:nwhysel@gmail.com>> wrote: Yes. Do we need to define “trust relationship” in our lists of terms? Can we say that the trust relationship is the human component of assurance in which an individual shares data with a provider they deem trustworthy, and that the trust anchor is the technology component, embodied in a root certificate, for example, that provides identity assurance of the individual? Noreen On Aug 5, 2024, at 9:59 PM, kragh65(a)gmail.com<mailto:kragh65@gmail.com> wrote: Tom, in the healthcare sector, especially in underserved communities a relationship with a nurse, social worker or a non-profit entity or faith based entity serving that community is where relational trust is nurtured and built. In my 20+ years in the healthcare sector, I have never heard the term “trust anchor’ used as it relates to a ‘trusted’ relationship, especially a health care relationship. But understanding you are the DII Editor and there is a taxonomy in the DII that defines what a TA is in that domain, so be it. I am grateful for your leadership and support is making this document a reality, a foundation for a potential project. On be half of our WG collogues and Kantara, thank you. I will support your recommendation. Jim From: Tom Jones <thomasclinganjones(a)gmail.com<mailto:thomasclinganjones@gmail.com>> Sent: Monday, August 05, 2024 8:41 PM To: jim kragh <kragh65(a)gmail.com<mailto:kragh65@gmail.com>> Cc: Noreen Whysel. Brett <nwhysel(a)gmail.com<mailto:nwhysel@gmail.com>>; Salvatore D'Agostino <sal(a)idmachines.com<mailto:sal@idmachines.com>>; Simone Alcorn <salcorn(a)easydynamics.com<mailto:salcorn@easydynamics.com>>; Bev Corwin <bevcorwin(a)gmail.com<mailto:bevcorwin@gmail.com>>; Isha Chhatwal <ichhatwa(a)gmail.com<mailto:ichhatwa@gmail.com>>; Thomas Sullivan <tsullivan(a)drfirst.com<mailto:tsullivan@drfirst.com>>; Jeff Brennan <jeff_brennan(a)sbcglobal.net<mailto:jeff_brennan@sbcglobal.net>>; Justin Byrd <justin(a)machi-systems.com<mailto:justin@machi-systems.com>>; Jorge Flores <jorge(a)entidad.io<mailto:jorge@entidad.io>>; wg-riup <wg-riup(a)kantarainitiative.org<mailto:wg-riup@kantarainitiative.org>>; Kay Chopard Cohen <kay(a)kantarainitiative.org<mailto:kay@kantarainitiative.org>>; Amanda Gay <amanda(a)kantarainitiative.org<mailto:amanda@kantarainitiative.org>> Subject: Re: RIUP WG 'brief' meeting tomorrow to vote on revisions to the Digital Identifier Inclusion doc. as i indicated the last time this came up, I don't know what a trust relationship is or why that would exist. The Trust Anchor is at least defined in the taxonomy. Be the change you want to see in the world ..tom On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 5:26 PM jim kragh <kragh65(a)gmail.com<mailto:kragh65@gmail.com>> wrote: I was informed last week that we have a new 'Join Zoom Meeting #:and access code: ATTENTION WE HAVE A N NEW Join Zoom Meeting link: https://us06web.zoom.us/j/87605872193?pwd=HQI7AJKhLvpgtUxKyOYANVUKzsZW3U.1 Meeting ID: 876 0587 2193 Passcode: 157149 A list of call numbers was not provided and if a list of # 's are available I will ask Amanda to share such with us tomorrow morning.. Good evening! The revised DII document link is below and Tom, Sal, Noreen and I again reviewed and addressed items that needed attention that were accepted. The attached DII has a few fine tuning thoughts by Noreen and me for your review, comments and or corrections. Please read the document and be prepared to vote or provide a proxy so we can forward the DII to the LC Chair; thank you. The Kantara Leadership Council will be meeting next week, and if tomorrow our WG accepts changes made, we should be able to place the DII in their hands for a final review and acceptance. Once that is accomplished, maybe we can find a funding source and a demonstration partner. Tom shared with us a Homeland Security notice of six 'wallet' projects DHS was funding; surely there are others out there - let's discuss.. Have a nice evening, Jim Kantara RIUP WG Digital Identifier Inclusion Draft 9 5 15 24_ENDORSED.docx<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jaY6yNopxCFC_3sBgeddnmM1psVkLmnS/edit?u…>

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